Point of View December 26, 2024 – Hour 2 : Alliance Defending Freedom Topics

[00:00:04] Across America Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson.

[00:00:20] Today we're going to spend some time just for a few more minutes talking about Joe Biden, especially the commutations and pardons.

[00:00:26] And then we'll get into Donald Trump. You know, one of the things oftentimes I say is this president gives us a lot to talk about, but the future president is going to give us a lot to talk about, too.

[00:00:35] And so we'll get into all the things Donald Trump has been saying over the last couple of weeks.

[00:00:39] But one of the articles is by Rich Lowry. It is our second article, and it's called Joe Biden's Commutations Racket.

[00:00:49] And it's one of those pieces. Also, we have one by Byron York, Another Biden Parting Outrage.

[00:00:56] Either one of those is helpful. But I thought it was interesting, Lathan, before getting all the details, that Joe Biden has created a phenomenon

[00:01:05] so that now you have Rich Lowry saying, President Biden or whoever is running the White House grotesquely abused their pardon power.

[00:01:12] Or Biden, whoever is running the White House, put out a statement.

[00:01:15] The fact that you have to say that is something that I think is unprecedented in American presidential history, isn't it?

[00:01:25] Yeah, it really is. I mean, the fact that that Rich puts this every time, I think some of it is, you know, in a humorous way.

[00:01:33] It will flourish, I understand.

[00:01:34] But also, like, it's true. It's necessary. You have to ask that question now.

[00:01:39] And as we said in the last segment, not since Woodrow Wilson would this question have been relevant.

[00:01:44] I don't think it would have been asked in the media back when Wilson was in office.

[00:01:49] But it certainly is now. And it has to be asked based on.

[00:01:54] And so when you get a decision like this and it is a it's egregious, that's the first question that seems to pop into people's minds.

[00:02:02] Well, was this really him or, you know, was this staff made decision that they just put something in front of him and said, sign here, Mr. President?

[00:02:11] Well, and one of the things we'll talk about tomorrow, because this is one that I haven't posted today, but I'll probably do tomorrow for our roundtable.

[00:02:17] As if his fifteen hundred pardons, Cal Thomas says, weren't enough to cause outrage, President Biden has gone further.

[00:02:25] And that is, of course, he commuted the sentences of thirty seven to forty individuals.

[00:02:30] So his argument is he's busy protecting the lives of murderers, but not protecting the lives of babies.

[00:02:36] And you have some good points on this, because of the individuals who he actually has decided to commute their sentence.

[00:02:45] The the ones that are left are.

[00:02:48] And I guess I should by now mention their names.

[00:02:50] Whereas I have a policy not to Dylan Roof.

[00:02:52] He's the one that murdered nine people, Charleston, South Carolina.

[00:02:56] That would be, quote, a hate crime.

[00:02:58] Robin Bowers, who murdered late eleven in the Pittsburgh synagogue.

[00:03:02] That would be considered a hate crime.

[00:03:04] And then you have the marathon bomber, Sharnarvath.

[00:03:08] And he killed and injured a number of others.

[00:03:10] So of the forty, he actually wanted to commute the sentences of thirty seven, supposedly because he's changed his mind on the death penalty.

[00:03:23] But I think you point out that the three he's not going to commute tells you a lot as well.

[00:03:29] It does.

[00:03:29] Because, you know, people can change their minds and particularly people who have been in public office for as long as Joe Biden has.

[00:03:39] The man's never had a real job.

[00:03:42] You know, decades.

[00:03:43] And it.

[00:03:45] It's not unusual for somebody to after being in office for so long, seeing the results of policy, maybe come to a conclusion.

[00:03:54] You know what?

[00:03:54] Maybe I was wrong 20, 30 years ago and change their mind and say, I'm going to do what I can for the rest of my time in politics to undo some of the damage that I did under this previous policy.

[00:04:06] But that's not that's really not what's going on here.

[00:04:10] It would be more believable if he said, you know, my principle on the on the issue of the death penalty.

[00:04:17] I my position has changed.

[00:04:19] It's a principled position now that I oppose the death penalty across the board.

[00:04:23] And therefore, I'm going to commute every federal death sentence that's on the books right now.

[00:04:29] That's not what he did.

[00:04:31] And that's telling.

[00:04:33] It is because there there aren't that many federal crimes for which the death penalty is available.

[00:04:41] And when it is, it's a horrible, horrible crime.

[00:04:45] And these things are as bad as you can imagine.

[00:04:48] So of the 40 that are out there, he commuted 37 of them.

[00:04:52] But the three that he didn't, he said, because these were hate crimes or acts of terrorism.

[00:04:59] Well, when you when you dig into that, it's really just another sort of log on the fire of the of this idea of the thought police.

[00:05:07] Right.

[00:05:07] Because basically what he's saying is these these other 37 people who raped and murdered children, they don't deserve to die.

[00:05:17] But these three guys, based on what they were thinking when they murdered these people, this this attitude, this thought, this perspective, whatever you want to call it.

[00:05:27] That's bad enough that their death sentence should stay on the books.

[00:05:30] And so, you know, this is why I think it's it's in hate crimes legislation as much as it may make us feel better to say we're going to add on a few years because you're a racist when you did this.

[00:05:44] Well.

[00:05:46] The person is not any less dead.

[00:05:48] That family is not any less destroyed based on what you were thinking when you did it.

[00:05:55] And.

[00:05:57] And it it gets to this idea of policing thought.

[00:06:01] And that's really what's at the heart of this.

[00:06:04] You know, he can say that he's changed his mind on the death penalty.

[00:06:07] Maybe he has.

[00:06:10] But.

[00:06:10] But.

[00:06:10] But that's not what his actions say.

[00:06:13] Um.

[00:06:13] And it would be a much more consistent.

[00:06:16] Uh.

[00:06:17] And principled decision if he said.

[00:06:19] Um.

[00:06:20] You know, I've reexamined this.

[00:06:22] Um.

[00:06:23] You know.

[00:06:24] It would be more consistent, frankly, with.

[00:06:27] Um.

[00:06:28] His professed Catholicism.

[00:06:29] The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty in all cases.

[00:06:33] Mm hmm.

[00:06:33] As well as opposes abortion.

[00:06:35] Because they recognize the sanctity of life.

[00:06:38] All people are image bearers of God.

[00:06:40] He would be more consistent with his Catholic faith if he said.

[00:06:44] Uh.

[00:06:44] I've changed my mind on this.

[00:06:46] Uh.

[00:06:46] I'm opposed to the death penalty in all cases.

[00:06:49] Um.

[00:06:50] But he certainly hasn't changed his mind on abortion.

[00:06:53] So it's not a religious decision that he's made.

[00:06:55] Um.

[00:06:56] And when you get into the ones that he decided to leave the death penalty in place.

[00:07:00] It's because of.

[00:07:03] In a manner of speaking.

[00:07:04] What they were thinking when they did it.

[00:07:06] Um.

[00:07:07] These hate crimes are acts of terrorism.

[00:07:09] Um.

[00:07:11] They're all terrible.

[00:07:12] You know.

[00:07:13] Um.

[00:07:13] And there are good arguments for and against the death penalty.

[00:07:16] I'm not really, um.

[00:07:18] Saying we should have, you know.

[00:07:20] Yay or nay.

[00:07:22] But.

[00:07:22] This is about.

[00:07:24] Um.

[00:07:25] You know.

[00:07:25] One last decision that he's making.

[00:07:27] That does sort of reinforce this idea.

[00:07:30] That some beliefs are.

[00:07:33] Um.

[00:07:33] Acceptable.

[00:07:34] Others aren't.

[00:07:35] And consequences.

[00:07:36] Uh.

[00:07:37] For actions based on those beliefs.

[00:07:38] Should be different.

[00:07:39] Um.

[00:07:40] Which is a really bad.

[00:07:42] Road to go down.

[00:07:43] When you start policing thought.

[00:07:44] Yeah.

[00:07:44] Even the worst thoughts.

[00:07:45] And there's no doubt.

[00:07:46] These are terrible.

[00:07:47] Terrible.

[00:07:48] Actions.

[00:07:49] Actions and thoughts.

[00:07:50] Sure.

[00:07:51] And motives.

[00:07:52] Um.

[00:07:52] But it doesn't make the victims.

[00:07:54] Any less dead.

[00:07:55] Based on what you were thinking when you killed them.

[00:07:57] And again.

[00:07:58] The other argument that he was making is.

[00:08:00] I cannot in good conscience stand back.

[00:08:01] And let a new administration resume executions.

[00:08:04] That I.

[00:08:05] Halted.

[00:08:06] So.

[00:08:06] Again.

[00:08:07] It has something to do also with Donald Trump.

[00:08:10] But more importantly.

[00:08:11] I think.

[00:08:12] A lot of people might have missed the fact that.

[00:08:14] Of the 40.

[00:08:16] 37 will have their sentences commuted.

[00:08:18] If you'd like to know what these engage.

[00:08:21] And some of these are just horrific anyway.

[00:08:23] Um.

[00:08:24] Then to then single out the three that aren't.

[00:08:27] Because those involve.

[00:08:29] Um.

[00:08:29] Um.

[00:08:30] Hate motivated crimes.

[00:08:32] Or terrorism.

[00:08:33] Both secretly.

[00:08:34] Basically the same thing.

[00:08:35] That was the case.

[00:08:36] So come back.

[00:08:37] And just maybe a few other final comments.

[00:08:38] About.

[00:08:39] This whole pardon.

[00:08:40] Use and misuse.

[00:08:42] And then we'll move on to.

[00:08:43] All the things Donald Trump's been saying lately.

[00:08:45] All that coming up right after this.

[00:08:56] This is Viewpoints.

[00:08:58] With Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:00] Now that Christmas is behind us.

[00:09:04] You may be thinking of any final gifts.

[00:09:06] You might want to give to your church.

[00:09:07] Or Christian organizations.

[00:09:08] If you're listening to this right now.

[00:09:10] I would certainly recommend.

[00:09:12] That you support the radio station.

[00:09:13] That is carrying this commentary.

[00:09:15] If you're reading it.

[00:09:16] You might want to follow the links.

[00:09:17] To the platform that provides it.

[00:09:19] The December issue of Outlook.

[00:09:21] Produced by their point of view radio program.

[00:09:23] Focuses on generosity.

[00:09:25] I wrote an article about generosity.

[00:09:26] And charitable giving.

[00:09:28] By citing the research done.

[00:09:29] By Professor Arthur Brooks.

[00:09:31] In his book Who Really Cares.

[00:09:33] He reminds us that Americans are givers.

[00:09:36] Professor Rodney Stark documents.

[00:09:37] That Christians out give the U.S. government.

[00:09:39] In addressing global poverty.

[00:09:41] One of the other articles.

[00:09:43] Was by David Green.

[00:09:44] Founder of Hobby Lobby.

[00:09:45] In his excerpt from his book.

[00:09:47] Giving it all away.

[00:09:48] He talks about his success.

[00:09:49] And his decision to give the ownership.

[00:09:51] Of Hobby Lobby to God.

[00:09:53] He calls for Christians to give generously.

[00:09:55] To churches and other ministries.

[00:09:57] We've had three generations of the Green family.

[00:09:59] On my radio program.

[00:10:00] They have left a legacy of giving to ministries.

[00:10:03] Another person we quote.

[00:10:04] Is Randy Alcorn.

[00:10:05] Author of The Treasure Principle.

[00:10:07] He affirms God's full ownership of me.

[00:10:09] In 1 Corinthians 6.

[00:10:11] And everything entrusted to me.

[00:10:12] Psalm 24.

[00:10:14] I recognize that my money.

[00:10:15] And possessions are in fact his.

[00:10:17] He does this in obedience.

[00:10:19] Because he desires God's blessing.

[00:10:20] In Malachi 3.

[00:10:22] We learn in 1 Chronicles 29.

[00:10:24] That both riches and honor.

[00:10:26] Come from God.

[00:10:27] Deuteronomy 8.

[00:10:28] Reminds us that God is the one.

[00:10:29] Who gives you power to get wealth.

[00:10:31] As we come to the end of this year.

[00:10:33] Please be generous.

[00:10:34] As you give to God's ministry.

[00:10:36] Here on earth.

[00:10:37] I'm Kirby Anderson.

[00:10:38] And that's my point of view.

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[00:10:47] Go to viewpoints.info.

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[00:11:02] Once again we are privileged to have in studio with us Lathan Watson.

[00:11:06] Talking about commutations and pardons.

[00:11:09] And I might just make sure that you understand.

[00:11:11] Pardons are where you are free.

[00:11:14] Commutations.

[00:11:15] These individuals.

[00:11:16] These 37 individuals.

[00:11:17] Will still spend their dire life in prison.

[00:11:21] But I thought it was interesting.

[00:11:23] Because one of the things I'm going to post tomorrow.

[00:11:25] By Cal Thomas.

[00:11:26] He said Biden is engaging in selective morality.

[00:11:29] Why should motives play a role.

[00:11:31] When it comes to murder.

[00:11:32] By his logic.

[00:11:33] Or illogic.

[00:11:34] He says a pardon could be given.

[00:11:36] To the accused murderer.

[00:11:37] Of the United Healthcare CEO.

[00:11:40] And he said this is what C.S. Lewis called.

[00:11:42] The humanitarian view of punishment.

[00:11:45] Depriving a murder of liberty.

[00:11:46] Is not a penalty equal to that of taking an innocent life.

[00:11:49] Biden's engaged in what some have called.

[00:11:52] Cafeteria Christianity.

[00:11:53] Obeying doctrines he agrees with.

[00:11:55] While ignoring others.

[00:11:56] Because he goes on to then talk about.

[00:11:58] Yes.

[00:11:59] If he wants to at least follow the teachings of the Catholic Church.

[00:12:02] He would also be pro-life.

[00:12:04] And he's not there.

[00:12:05] So.

[00:12:06] I didn't realize I was quoting Cal Thomas earlier.

[00:12:08] But always good to know.

[00:12:10] That he and I are on the same page.

[00:12:11] Or C.S. Lewis for that matter.

[00:12:13] Yeah.

[00:12:13] You're quoting C.S. Lewis.

[00:12:14] But that's the issue for just a minute.

[00:12:16] And I thought we might.

[00:12:17] Before we get on to.

[00:12:18] Of course Donald Trump.

[00:12:20] And there's a lot to cover there.

[00:12:21] Is that you have two issues.

[00:12:23] You have the pardons.

[00:12:24] And you have the commutations.

[00:12:26] But even if you go back to.

[00:12:27] What is it?

[00:12:28] 1,500 pardons.

[00:12:29] It's just unbelievable.

[00:12:31] Your mind just is overwhelmed by that.

[00:12:33] I've always said.

[00:12:35] Lathan.

[00:12:36] That the pardon principle.

[00:12:38] Has been one that I think is somewhat questionable.

[00:12:41] And it has certainly been abused and misused quite a bit.

[00:12:45] I looked it up.

[00:12:47] And the one modern president who has issued less pardons.

[00:12:51] Donald Trump.

[00:12:52] And the other one to be George H. Bush.

[00:12:55] The ones that have used him quite often.

[00:12:57] Can I use Bill Clinton?

[00:12:58] And some of the people he's let off.

[00:13:00] Some of the people Barack Obama's leading off.

[00:13:02] And now some of the people that Joe Biden's leading off.

[00:13:06] And I don't think when we had this idea of pardons.

[00:13:09] That that was even what the framers intended.

[00:13:13] And seeing the misuse of it makes at least some people.

[00:13:16] And I saw Andrew McCarthy today saying.

[00:13:18] Maybe this is just an outmoded doctrine.

[00:13:21] That we shouldn't be allowed any longer.

[00:13:23] That's an interesting question.

[00:13:24] Because I do think if it's you.

[00:13:27] If it's used sparingly.

[00:13:30] Right.

[00:13:31] And we all love it when Dinesh D'Souza gets pardoned.

[00:13:34] Or Cal Thomas.

[00:13:35] Right.

[00:13:35] Charlie Chuck Olson gets pardoned.

[00:13:37] Right.

[00:13:38] Yeah.

[00:13:38] You know if there has been something that.

[00:13:40] You know an egregious miscarriage of justice.

[00:13:43] And the only thing left to do.

[00:13:46] Right.

[00:13:46] To address it as a presidential pardon.

[00:13:48] Then yes.

[00:13:50] But what I think McCarthy is saying is that.

[00:13:54] Look at how it's being used.

[00:13:56] And this is you know certainly probably not what the founders intended.

[00:13:59] By creating it.

[00:14:01] And that leads to the question of do we keep it.

[00:14:03] Right.

[00:14:03] And that's why you know like any authority.

[00:14:06] Given to the federal government when it's abused.

[00:14:09] One of the first.

[00:14:10] And that's that's one of the first questions that pops up.

[00:14:12] Well should we still be doing this or not.

[00:14:14] And that's what's so dangerous about abusing the authority that you're entrusted with.

[00:14:19] Is people will immediately start to question whether or not you should.

[00:14:23] That authority should still exist.

[00:14:25] And that authority might be a good thing.

[00:14:27] Right.

[00:14:27] It you know it's like the devil's always in the details.

[00:14:30] It's how it's done.

[00:14:32] And too many people on both ends of the political spectrum I think fall prey to this.

[00:14:37] Well if my guy's doing it and it's you know people that I like are getting it and then it's

[00:14:42] okay.

[00:14:42] But you know these you know when the other guys do it.

[00:14:45] Well maybe we should rethink this.

[00:14:47] That's not the way to go.

[00:14:48] Yeah.

[00:14:48] Because that's just going to politicize whatever authority that you're talking about even more.

[00:14:54] And so you get you know sort of reaction and overreaction when when who's in charge changes.

[00:15:02] Well you pardon these guys.

[00:15:04] Well okay I'm going to pardon these guys.

[00:15:05] And Trump will do that with the J6ers.

[00:15:07] Probably so.

[00:15:08] First day and some of these others that.

[00:15:10] So again it's just one of those things we have to deal with.

[00:15:13] But I just thought we'd put it on the table.

[00:15:14] Well it's a debate that is right now somewhat simmering.

[00:15:19] But you know when it goes to January 20th and the first pardon or many pardons that are

[00:15:25] given by Donald Trump boy the mainstream media will have its hair on fire.

[00:15:29] But I don't see a whole lot of reaction to it right now which is one of the reasons why

[00:15:33] I wanted to bring it up.

[00:15:34] Yeah.

[00:15:35] If there's if there's any possible constitutional challenge to the pardon authority you can expect

[00:15:42] it will be filed in court the first time Donald Trump pardons anybody.

[00:15:46] Yes.

[00:15:47] So it might you know you know courts might get a chance to do some writing on this.

[00:15:51] We'll see.

[00:15:52] Yeah.

[00:15:53] Well again president elect Donald Trump has given us something to talk about.

[00:15:58] So let's see.

[00:15:59] Shocker.

[00:16:01] First of all the Mount McKinley was renamed Denali by Barack Obama.

[00:16:08] He wants to bring the name back to McKinley.

[00:16:11] Not exactly the best person in American history but that's one of them.

[00:16:15] The other day when he's talking with the Prime Minister Trudeau getting a little bit of pushback

[00:16:21] as you might imagine wanting to actually initiate these tariffs in order to get a fair level playing field

[00:16:30] then jokingly suggested well maybe we should make Canada the 51st state.

[00:16:35] He has made more than once a comment about we need to have the Panama Canal fairly adjudicating these issues

[00:16:45] in charging the right amounts given the fact we spent so much time and life to produce that.

[00:16:52] And then this is something he's been talking about you know you know about Estee Lauder

[00:16:56] but the Lauder family has talked about you know maybe we should buy Greenland

[00:16:59] and Donald Trump thinks we should buy Greenland.

[00:17:02] You cannot make up these four but those are the four he's been talking about lately on True Social and everything else.

[00:17:07] Yeah it's fascinating for political junkies like me.

[00:17:12] And we were talking in the break about this that you know the first time that he ran

[00:17:18] I forget who came up with this analysis first but it was brilliant.

[00:17:22] In his first campaign made the comment that people that take him literally don't take him seriously

[00:17:27] and the people that take him seriously don't take him literally.

[00:17:31] And so it's always a question when Trump especially when he starts spouting off on X or Twitter or True Social or whatever

[00:17:38] if he's being bombastic to sort of give himself a step back position to fall back to that's more reasonable

[00:17:48] and he gets what he wants or does he really think we should buy Greenland?

[00:17:52] Nobody knows.

[00:17:54] And so as you know somebody like I said you're just kind of a political nerd.

[00:18:00] It's a fascinating thing to observe.

[00:18:01] But to me the bigger point and one I haven't really heard people make when talking about things like buying Greenland

[00:18:10] or making Canada a state or you know I do think he's serious about the Panama Canal for sure.

[00:18:15] He seems to be most serious about that one.

[00:18:16] Is that to me it highlights the potential of like the universe of possibility of these next two years.

[00:18:26] The only reason I don't say four years is because right now his party has control of Congress as well, the House and the Senate.

[00:18:34] Historically in the first midterm election after a president is elected they tend to lose seats in the House.

[00:18:41] George W. Bush was the exception to that in the first midterm after the September 11th attacks.

[00:18:46] Now Donald Trump has been the exception to a lot of historical trends so he may buck the trend

[00:18:50] and hold on to Congress for the four years that he's still left in office.

[00:18:54] But if he doesn't these first two years when he has theoretically a cooperative legislative branch things like this are all on the table.

[00:19:04] It's literally like just a wide open like hey what do you want to do today guys.

[00:19:09] Hey I don't know let's buy Greenland.

[00:19:10] Well let's talk about that.

[00:19:12] It's like it's just the universe of potential things that you could see happen in the next couple of years are just it's fascinating.

[00:19:24] It's probably terrifying to some people but it's fascinating to me.

[00:19:29] So we'll see.

[00:19:30] Something to talk about here on Point of View.

[00:19:31] That's for sure.

[00:19:31] That's for sure.

[00:19:32] When we come back from the break I do want to talk about one that he's very serious about

[00:19:35] and that is pulling out of the World Health Organization and everything we've been through with the pandemic certainly is something.

[00:19:42] But I thought just before I go to a break that we have been talking about the importance of the fact that we're headed to the end of the year.

[00:19:51] By this time next week we will of course already come into 2025.

[00:19:56] And so I wanted to mention a few things.

[00:19:58] First of all we have a particular banner on our website right now which says give the gift of truth.

[00:20:05] We have a matching fund and that matching challenge is up to $125,000.

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[00:23:08] And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson.

[00:23:12] Final half hour if you'd like to join the conversation.

[00:23:14] 1-800-351-1212.

[00:23:16] Lathan Watts with us.

[00:23:18] And let me just mention that one of the things Donald Trump does want to do, and this one's not so much speculative.

[00:23:24] He wants to have the United States pull out of the World Health Organization, which has a six, almost $7 billion budget.

[00:23:33] And guess who pays a billion of that?

[00:23:36] $1.09 billion we pay for.

[00:23:40] And so I decided maybe now that I think about that, we'll maybe cover that tomorrow because Dr. Merrill Matthews, who's certainly an expert on some of the health care policy, will be the case.

[00:23:49] And that allows me to spend some time talking with Lathan about political realignment.

[00:23:53] I'm holding up my booklet here, and there are two issues.

[00:23:57] One is geographical realignment, and I'll just mention that in passing, because what is happening is more people are moving from blue states to red states.

[00:24:06] And what that means is by the time we have the next census, and it's still many years apart, we will see a remarkable change.

[00:24:14] And I think you can begin to illustrate that by the fact that Republicans will pick up an additional 12 electoral votes.

[00:24:23] California most likely will lose four electoral votes.

[00:24:26] Texas will gain four electoral votes.

[00:24:29] New York will lose three electoral votes.

[00:24:31] Florida will gain three electoral votes, or ultimately three members of Congress, three additional members of Congress.

[00:24:38] So that is one area of realignment that's significant.

[00:24:42] But Lathan, let's talk about the political realignment.

[00:24:45] I would not have predicted that Donald Trump would do as well with Latinos or Hispanic Americans, African Americans, women,

[00:24:56] or even of a group that has been kind of the core constituency of the Democratic Party, unions.

[00:25:04] And yet, look at how that has changed dramatically.

[00:25:08] And in this booklet we make available, there is one very good kind of Trump in 2016 and Trump in 2024.

[00:25:15] And this has become a major political realignment.

[00:25:19] It really has.

[00:25:20] And I think one of the things that – you could probably fill a library with books that will be written about the Trump phenomenon.

[00:25:28] I'm thinking so.

[00:25:29] Once his time in office is over.

[00:25:31] But I do think one of the things that a lot of people will write about or talk about will be how he reoriented the Republican Party to the working class people of America.

[00:25:45] And, you know, you can argue as to whether or not the policies that the party, you know, had been – had always been in favor of actually did benefit those folks.

[00:25:59] But the politics of it and how it was – how those policies were communicated and just the connection that he had with the crowds and when he was out working the rope lines and all of the stuff that he was doing, you know, his connection with, you know, rural voters and working class people.

[00:26:19] It's not new.

[00:26:20] Reagan did it.

[00:26:21] You know, they invented the term Reagan Democrat because mainstream media, you know, couldn't bring themselves to say that these blue-collar folks were Republicans, so they had to call them Reagan Democrats.

[00:26:32] And Reagan used to say they're Republicans.

[00:26:34] They just don't know it, right?

[00:26:36] And so it's not new, but he – I think he has done it to a degree that – in a short period of time that I have not seen in the many years that I've been paying attention.

[00:26:49] And I think I've said on here before I was that weird kid in third grade that watched the news and couldn't wait to vote.

[00:26:54] So I've been paying attention for a while.

[00:26:57] And he really did sort of reorient his whole party.

[00:27:01] Some of them he kind of drug along kicking and screaming, but he reoriented them towards middle America, the every man, the common man, the working man, whatever, however you want to call it.

[00:27:12] And I think he was also helped by the fact that the other party took them for granted.

[00:27:19] As you said, they could almost always rely on people under a certain income demographic just always showing up and voting Democrat, union workers almost always showing up and voting Democrat.

[00:27:31] And I think they took that vote for granted.

[00:27:35] And then in some of the things that they were advocating for, really they came across as like they just don't really like these people that much.

[00:27:42] They still expect you to show up and vote for them.

[00:27:46] And Trump, you know, who is obviously, you know, a billionaire, certainly not what most people would would think of as like the common man or the working man.

[00:27:56] But but he likes those people.

[00:27:58] And it's clear that he likes those people.

[00:28:03] And those people look at a guy like that, like, you know what?

[00:28:06] He's not one of us.

[00:28:07] But he cares about us.

[00:28:09] And he seems to be out there trying to do things that are that are good for us.

[00:28:14] And I think probably the the best political move of this election cycle was he and J.D.

[00:28:21] Vance going on Joe Rogan's podcast.

[00:28:25] And Joe Rogan had one point voted for Bernie Sanders Sanders.

[00:28:29] Yeah.

[00:28:29] I mean, if you want to talk about political real or you want to talk about political realignment.

[00:28:33] Yes.

[00:28:34] A guy who was an out and out Bernie Sanders supporter.

[00:28:36] There you go.

[00:28:37] In the last cycle brings Trump and Vance on.

[00:28:41] You know, they sit for three hours each.

[00:28:43] No holds barred.

[00:28:44] You know, talk about whatever.

[00:28:47] And I think that a lot.

[00:28:49] I mean, Rogan's podcast audience is massive.

[00:28:51] It's the biggest one out there.

[00:28:54] I think on average, he's like 20, 30 million listeners or viewers every time he has an episode.

[00:29:01] And and you think about who he's talking to, the people who are listening to his show, because he has.

[00:29:06] I mean, any it's the widest range of guests you can imagine.

[00:29:10] It's not a political show.

[00:29:11] It's not a sports show.

[00:29:12] It's not an entertainment show.

[00:29:13] It's whatever he wants to talk about.

[00:29:14] It's just whoever he thinks is interesting.

[00:29:16] He sits down and talks to him for three hours.

[00:29:19] The people that are listening to that are probably not the people who are consistent, reliable voters.

[00:29:26] So they're not likely getting polled by anybody.

[00:29:29] They're not likely getting political mail sent to them.

[00:29:33] And but they're highly motivated because think about this.

[00:29:35] If you have your TV on and the news comes on from ABC, CBS, NBC, something like that, it's just on.

[00:29:41] You have to work to go to listen to Joe Rogan.

[00:29:44] So these are very motivated people.

[00:29:46] But you're right.

[00:29:47] They're hardly ever surveyed.

[00:29:49] And they got three hours of each one of those guys, Trump and Vance.

[00:29:53] And my personal opinion is that Vance's was even more effective than Trump's.

[00:29:58] He won me over.

[00:29:59] And so they got they got three hours if they listen to the whole thing.

[00:30:04] And even if you just listen to bits and pieces of it, three hours that was not interrupted or filtered by mainstream news media telling you it means this when he says this or, you know, taking things out of context or whatever.

[00:30:17] And I think I mean, the Trump episode, I think, had like 75 million views in the in the first couple of days.

[00:30:26] And if if you're not a consistent voter and all you've heard is from the other side is that Trump is literally Hitler.

[00:30:33] These guys are Nazis.

[00:30:34] And then you sit and listen to that interview for three hours.

[00:30:37] And you're like, that's not this.

[00:30:39] That's this guy.

[00:30:40] This.

[00:30:40] Yeah.

[00:30:42] He's saying the kind of things I agree with.

[00:30:44] Yeah.

[00:30:44] This isn't at all who I thought this guy was.

[00:30:46] And I kind of like him.

[00:30:48] And Rogan seems to kind of like him.

[00:30:49] Maybe I'll vote for him.

[00:30:50] If 10 percent of those people showed up and voted, it made the difference in the election.

[00:30:54] Sure.

[00:30:54] And take it on the other side, because they never could get Kamala Harris on for three hours.

[00:30:59] You know, you're shaking your head because you know what that would be like.

[00:31:02] And whether it's Tim Walz or Kamala Harris, I can't see either of them, even though Tim Walz had been the governor in Minnesota for some time, handling them for three hours.

[00:31:12] Because in order to promote some of your very liberal, progressive ideas, you have to lie about what you really believe.

[00:31:19] And then you have to figure out how to couch it in such a way that's acceptable.

[00:31:24] Well, like him or don't like him, Donald Trump pretty much tells you what he's thinking.

[00:31:28] Exactly.

[00:31:28] And he's not shading anything.

[00:31:31] And that was the problem.

[00:31:33] You got the sense there was this thing working in Kamala Harris's brain that says, well, I can't say it that way.

[00:31:38] And if I say this, the transgender people are going to hate it.

[00:31:40] And if I tell people what I really want to do, I'm going to lose all the voters.

[00:31:43] And so they never do well in these long form interviews, do they?

[00:31:48] Well, and I think the Harris candidacy is probably the most manufactured stage production of a candidacy that I've ever seen.

[00:31:57] And Rogan is uncancellable.

[00:31:59] Like that guy's audience is that you are not going to have any control over what happens in that room.

[00:32:06] And there's no way they could put her in that room for three hours and let him just ask her anything he wants.

[00:32:11] Because one of the issues that he talks about a lot that drove him away from the left was all of the stuff with the transgender issue.

[00:32:20] Right.

[00:32:20] And there's no way he would have gone three hours without asking her, you really think somebody can just – like you're in favor of giving these hormones to kids?

[00:32:29] We don't let them get a driver's license.

[00:32:31] We don't let them get a tattoo because that's permanent.

[00:32:33] And you want to say that it's okay to do this to them?

[00:32:38] And I don't think she would have had a snowball's prayer in Phoenix of coming out of that interview looking good.

[00:32:46] And I think her team knew that, and that's why they couldn't let her do it.

[00:32:49] I want to take a break, but I want to come back and have you give us a little history because a lot of this has to do with populism.

[00:32:55] And, of course, they held up our book on political realignment.

[00:32:58] But let me also hold up this other book on historical cycles because I have a section there about populism and how that really kind of came to fruition in 2016.

[00:33:07] Not just the election of Donald Trump, but Brexit in England, the Yellow Jackets in – actually in France, the farmers in Amsterdam.

[00:33:18] You can give us some of that perspective because that really answers the other question I deal with in the booklet.

[00:33:23] And that is, okay, is this a one-off?

[00:33:25] Is this just a Trump phenomenon?

[00:33:27] Or could this become a political realignment, a permanent political realignment?

[00:33:33] And so we'll get into that.

[00:33:34] And, of course, I always love to get as much history as I can from Latham Watts.

[00:33:38] So we're going to get a few more perspectives from him right after these important messages.

[00:33:54] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:33:59] Back once again in studio with us for just a few more minutes is Latham Watts.

[00:34:03] And, Latham, I thought just for a minute we'd talk about populism.

[00:34:06] Now, populism has been around for a while, but it seemed to have a real resurgence around the time in which Donald Trump was elected in the United States.

[00:34:14] You have the farmers in the Netherlands.

[00:34:16] You have some of the protests, the so-called Yellow Jackets in France.

[00:34:21] And you have what was called Brexit, removing the United Kingdom or England and Britain away from the European Union.

[00:34:29] And all of that has been happening in the past.

[00:34:33] It's continued on.

[00:34:34] And it's hard to tell whether some of this is just a Trump phenomenon or whether it will continue.

[00:34:39] But give us some history, because when people hear populism, they go, what exactly is that?

[00:34:44] Yeah, it's one of those things that's a little tougher to define.

[00:34:48] It's not really a set.

[00:34:51] I wouldn't really classify it as like a set of political principles as much as it is sort of a lens of viewing the world.

[00:34:57] And it's sort of looking at things through the lens of the populace, which is where that comes from.

[00:35:09] Like the average, you know, the working class guy versus the elite.

[00:35:14] The elite.

[00:35:15] Yeah.

[00:35:15] Yeah.

[00:35:16] So the glitterati or the intellectual elite or the political elite or whoever you want to put up there at the top versus everybody else who's beneath them.

[00:35:24] And I think the reason that it's historically has not really solidified into like a long term, say, political party or movement is because even when it's successful in creating maybe some policies,

[00:35:42] the people that lead that end up in leadership.

[00:35:47] And now some of the people start to look at them as the elites.

[00:35:50] And so it has this tendency to kind of like eat its own a little bit.

[00:35:53] So it's a good point.

[00:35:55] So it's not so much, like I said, I think a set of principles as much as it is a way of viewing all of the things that are going on through the lens of looking out for the little guy is like the shorthand version of how I would describe populism.

[00:36:12] So now depending and then there's different brands of it, you know, a lot of people talk about Trump as a conservative populist.

[00:36:19] And if he says he's looking out for the little guy, he's he's typically like trying to protect the little guy from, in his mind, usually big, big government.

[00:36:28] You know, the elites in Washington think they know everything or want to run your life, all of this stuff.

[00:36:33] That's where you get like, you know, Doge and Elon and Vivek saying we're going to come in here and, you know, tear all this stuff down.

[00:36:40] And big pharma, Robert F. Kennedy.

[00:36:42] Yeah.

[00:36:43] Like I said, it's little guy versus big guy.

[00:36:45] So depending on where you are along that political spectrum, the big guy could be big pharma, could be big government, could be big banks.

[00:36:54] You know, and this is not a new phenomenon.

[00:36:57] It's been around, you know, for a long time, even the early 1900s.

[00:37:01] 1900s, he had a big populist movement.

[00:37:05] William Jennings Bryan running for president multiple times.

[00:37:07] And back then it was it was a lot about big business protecting you, protecting the small farmer, protecting the factory worker from the big factory owner, from the big banks, from the gold standard.

[00:37:21] People that wanted gold and silver to be the basis of the money versus just gold.

[00:37:26] And, you know, Brian's cross of gold speech and all of this.

[00:37:30] There's there's even a theory.

[00:37:32] And I'm I'm really politically nerding out here on a level.

[00:37:36] I probably haven't before.

[00:37:37] Even a theory that the movie The Wizard of Oz is a populist allegory.

[00:37:42] Yes.

[00:37:43] Explain that because I think it is probably true.

[00:37:45] That the scarecrow is representative of farmers and people in the agricultural sector.

[00:37:54] That the tin man is representative of the people in the factories, the workers in the factories.

[00:38:00] That the wizard who is supposedly, you know, in charge of everything that you think is this all all powerful.

[00:38:07] William Jennings Bryan.

[00:38:08] William Jennings Bryan is actually just this little guy behind the curtain who's not really getting, you know, a lot of things done.

[00:38:15] And then the yellow brick road.

[00:38:17] The yellow brick road was the key is how you get to Oz.

[00:38:22] Yeah.

[00:38:22] Right.

[00:38:22] Even Oz.

[00:38:23] If you know, it's The Wizard of Oz.

[00:38:25] O-Z.

[00:38:26] Ounces.

[00:38:27] Yeah.

[00:38:27] Right.

[00:38:28] The gold standard was a big part of that populist movement.

[00:38:31] That's right.

[00:38:31] And Dorothy's slippers were originally supposed to be silver.

[00:38:35] Silver.

[00:38:35] Slippers.

[00:38:36] Yeah.

[00:38:36] And then it turned into ruby because it was color.

[00:38:39] Because that was the big new technology in the movie business.

[00:38:41] And they wanted to show off technicolor.

[00:38:43] So they put them as ruby red slippers instead of silver.

[00:38:46] Because that was a big disagreement.

[00:38:47] Like, we want silver as a standard for monetary policy in addition to gold.

[00:38:53] Yeah.

[00:38:53] Don't put us on the gold standard.

[00:38:55] Bimetalism, as they called it.

[00:38:56] Right.

[00:38:57] Exactly.

[00:38:57] So it's an interesting rabbit hole if you have time, you want to go down.

[00:39:04] And not to be confused with the other rabbit hole about The Wizard of Oz, which is put on

[00:39:09] the movie and then start Pink Floyd's album, Dark Side of the Moon, and listen to that at

[00:39:14] the same time and watch how it creates a soundtrack for the movie.

[00:39:17] It's fascinating.

[00:39:18] I've done it.

[00:39:19] But I'm a Pink Floyd fan also.

[00:39:21] But we are way down in the weeds now.

[00:39:23] Yeah.

[00:39:24] But the point we're making is that this populism is around because the European Union got too

[00:39:32] big and controlled.

[00:39:33] We have this idea of the state, whatever you want to call it in this country.

[00:39:38] They sometimes call it the deep state.

[00:39:42] Others call it the other kinds of phrases.

[00:39:45] But it's all, again, that government has gotten too big and it's controlling all of our lives.

[00:39:51] These unelected bureaucrats are controlling our lives.

[00:39:55] And that's why you've had this populist movement.

[00:39:57] And I think it's going to be around for a while, don't you?

[00:39:59] I do.

[00:40:00] Especially if, as we said in an earlier segment, in these first couple of years, if Trump can

[00:40:06] get some successes in rolling some of it back.

[00:40:09] Right.

[00:40:09] I mean, it's much harder done than said.

[00:40:13] Yes.

[00:40:14] So if he shows some successes in actually doing some of these things in eliminating some federal

[00:40:22] agencies or at least federal programs, if not the entire agency, or it may be reorienting

[00:40:29] those agencies.

[00:40:30] He may, and then again, like what we talked about, sometimes Trump will say something that

[00:40:34] sounds a little outlandish and that what he's actually doing is giving himself a fallback

[00:40:39] position to something else.

[00:40:40] He's a negotiator.

[00:40:41] So, you know, he may say, you know what, we should just get rid of the entire Department

[00:40:45] of Agriculture.

[00:40:46] And then, you know, everybody in D.C.'s hair's on fire.

[00:40:48] And he says, well, okay, I won't get rid of it, but I'm going to move it to Iowa.

[00:40:52] You want to work for the Department of Agriculture?

[00:40:54] You're going to live with farmers.

[00:40:55] You're not going to live in D.C. with all the cultural elites and the glitterati and

[00:40:59] all that.

[00:40:59] You're going to live next to the people that you're regulating.

[00:41:02] Yeah.

[00:41:03] If he gets some of these things done and you actually see some results of it, then his

[00:41:09] party, I mean, political parties will do what works for them on both sides of the aisle.

[00:41:13] That's an easy predictor.

[00:41:15] If he gets some things done and reach some political benefit from it, I do think that this sort of

[00:41:23] populism could have a little bit longer lifetime in our political culture.

[00:41:31] And J.D. Vance will be around for a while if indeed that works out and some other individuals.

[00:41:36] So if you had told me a year ago that Robert F. Kennedy would be in his cabinet or that Tulsi

[00:41:41] Gabbert would be in his cabinet or some of these others, I wouldn't have predicted it.

[00:41:45] But this is what we look forward to in 2025.

[00:41:48] So again, Lathan, thank you so very much for being with us.

[00:41:52] If you want to know more about ADF, we have a link to adflegal.org.

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