Point of View December 24, 2024 – Hour 1 : America’s Expiration Date

[00:00:04] Across America Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson.

[00:00:20] This hour we're going to spend some time talking about the history of empires, nine if we have enough time to cover all of them, including the United States Empire as well.

[00:00:28] It's part of a book that came out a number of years ago called America's Expiration Date.

[00:00:33] There's a new preface and in some respects that is appropriate because as Cal Thomas points out in his book,

[00:00:40] some things have changed dramatically and as a result of this, since this publication of the book,

[00:00:45] you've had the pandemic and a number of other events that make this book even more relevant.

[00:00:50] So I hope you'll take the time not only to take some notes as we go through this,

[00:00:54] it may be the kind of book that you may want to pass on to individuals that are teaching in the Christian schools

[00:01:00] and other school systems to talk about our history.

[00:01:03] More importantly, it's a book you may want to buy and actually read to your children or grandchildren,

[00:01:09] and I think very highly of the book.

[00:01:11] Of course, I think very highly of Cal Thomas.

[00:01:12] He joins us now.

[00:01:14] Of course, you know him from a number of things, his twice weekly column that appeared in hundreds of newspapers.

[00:01:20] We had him on recently to talk about his book, A Watchman in the Night,

[00:01:24] and we talked about some of the things he did with Fox News Channel,

[00:01:27] that he also had been originally with NBC News and had done a program on CNBC and just all sorts of accolades.

[00:01:34] But this book, which came out a couple of years ago, Cal Thomas, I think is more relevant than ever before.

[00:01:40] So thank you for joining us today here on Point of View.

[00:01:42] Well, thank you, Kirby.

[00:01:44] I'm glad to see you still have maintained your wonderful radio voice.

[00:01:48] You sound just as good as when I first met you 110 years ago.

[00:01:55] Let's set the scene here because you're going to take us through.

[00:01:58] And I might just mention this is the kind of thing you could do in a small group because you look at the different empires,

[00:02:02] the Persian Empire, the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, all the way up to the Ottoman Empire, British, Russian Empire, the United States.

[00:02:09] And then you also have a section where you will then do a highlight of a key individual, a cameo.

[00:02:15] But just before we get into the various empires, there is a person that you actually talk about early on, Sir John Glubb.

[00:02:24] And he has argued and I think can document the fact that most empires last about 250 years.

[00:02:33] And so that, in some respects, begins to be sort of the technology and the template that you use to evaluate some of these empires.

[00:02:41] Well, that's true.

[00:02:42] And the one thing that never changes, as he points out, and as I point out of the book, is human nature.

[00:02:48] You can change hairstyles, you can change clothing styles, modes of transportation, but the one thing you can't change is human nature.

[00:02:56] And that's at the bottom of all of these empires.

[00:02:59] Now, some, like the Roman Empire, lasted more than 250 years, but all of them follow the same pattern.

[00:03:06] This book came out the month before COVID hit, one of the worst time publications in the history of publishing.

[00:03:13] So I thought, because all of the attention, naturally, was on COVID, and properly so, that it would be good to do a new preface to the book and have a new edition that shows how much of what I said and what Sir John Glubb predicted has come true.

[00:03:31] The border is more open than it was four years ago.

[00:03:34] Our debt is greater, 34 trillion and counting, than it was four years ago.

[00:03:40] And I don't think anybody would argue that our shared moral value system has just exploded in the last four years with things promoted that God calls an abomination,

[00:03:52] because I think we are a nation that has really forgotten God as a people.

[00:03:56] And that's why all of these things are happening to us.

[00:03:59] We learn nothing from history, and so we are doomed to repeat it.

[00:04:04] So again, just as we go through this, maybe take some notes and kind of think of that 250-year situation.

[00:04:11] By the way, if you want to know where we are, well, we're just about a year or two away from that ourselves.

[00:04:16] I might mention this is published by Zondervan.

[00:04:18] You probably could find it in your local bookstore, but I know that since it's been out for a while,

[00:04:22] you can also get it in paperback or hardcover or Kindle.

[00:04:27] It is published by Zondervan.

[00:04:28] We have information about that on the website.

[00:04:31] So Calca, we get into the Persian Empire.

[00:04:33] That would be something that would in some cases seem unfamiliar until you read the Old Testament,

[00:04:38] because we actually have interacted in the Old Testament many times with the Persian Empire.

[00:04:44] Yeah, of course, the Persian Empire is now modern-day Iran.

[00:04:49] There was a big difference.

[00:04:50] And I think you see in all of these, and not just Persia, but you see in all of them a religious

[00:04:56] or even an anti-religious component, and that figures into the health of all of these empires

[00:05:03] or their ill health.

[00:05:05] Abraham Lincoln warned that the cause of the Civil War, he believed, was that we had become a nation that had forgotten God.

[00:05:13] And, you know, nations rise and fall.

[00:05:16] Isaiah says that God regards all nations as a drop in the bucket and less than nothing.

[00:05:23] And so I think, you know, we have to be very careful as Americans to learn not only from the Persian Empire,

[00:05:30] the Byzantines, the Romans, and even, you know, the UK, now the British Empire,

[00:05:37] on which it was once said the sun never sets, now the sun barely rises.

[00:05:45] And I argue in the book, what makes us think in our arrogance that we are going to be able to escape the judgment of history,

[00:05:53] if not the judgment of God, if we follow this same pattern?

[00:05:56] You look at over 20% now of millennials say that they're, or maybe it's Generation Z, I guess.

[00:06:04] It's hard to keep up with all these numbers and letters.

[00:06:06] When asked about their religious affiliation, they say none.

[00:06:10] Church attendance, except in some of the strongest evangelical churches, is down considerably.

[00:06:15] Of course, the liberal churches have been losing members for years because they're preaching something other than the gospel.

[00:06:21] But all of these empires and great nations were subject to the same lessons from history,

[00:06:30] no matter what millennium they were in.

[00:06:35] And again, human nature never changes.

[00:06:37] So what I've sought to do in this book, and you mentioned the cameos of some of these leaders of these various empires,

[00:06:46] is to demonstrate that and to warn us as Americans that we are on the same path.

[00:06:52] And it's not about who's in the White House.

[00:06:54] It's about what's happening in our house.

[00:06:57] We've got to get our kids out of these universities and indoctrination centers, public schools,

[00:07:02] and educate them with a biblical and intellectual and real historical perspective, or we're going to lose them.

[00:07:10] Reagan used to say we're just one generation away from losing it all.

[00:07:13] He was right.

[00:07:15] You know, you do talk about in the end of each one of these chapters what we can learn,

[00:07:19] and what we can learn from Persia is maybe we should take seriously our faith.

[00:07:23] And I love the question you have there.

[00:07:25] What if people of faith live as they profess to believe?

[00:07:28] There are approximately 185 million self-described Christians in the United States.

[00:07:33] And yet, as you've pointed out before, sometimes when you're at a baseball game

[00:07:38] and they're singing God Bless America, you ask the question, why?

[00:07:42] Why would God bless America in light of some of the things you just mentioned?

[00:07:45] So let me take a break, and when we come back,

[00:07:47] we've just mentioned a little bit about the Persian Empire, and there is a very good cameo of Xerxes.

[00:07:53] And if you'd like to understand more about some of those issues, they certainly relate to the Old Testament.

[00:07:59] Well, we'll come back and talk about the Roman Empire, because that's one of the exceptions that lasted more than 250 years.

[00:08:06] But again, are there some lessons we can learn from indeed what was happening in Rome?

[00:08:12] And then we'll talk about maybe a few of the others along the way.

[00:08:15] But if you would like to try to get a thumbnail sketch of history and understand the trends of various empires,

[00:08:23] we'll end, of course, with the United States, the American Empire, you certainly will benefit from this book.

[00:08:29] And of course, it asks the question, will history repeat itself?

[00:08:32] And will America fall?

[00:08:34] We'll continue our conversation with Cal Thomas about that right after these important messages.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] This is Christmas week, and so I thought we might reflect on the hymn, O Holy Night, by John Dwight.

[00:09:08] O Holy Night, the stars are shining brightly.

[00:09:10] It is the night of the dear Savior's birth.

[00:09:13] Long lay the world in sin and error pining, till he appeared and the soul felt its worth.

[00:09:18] Jesus came into the world to save us, and so we feel valuable and our souls feel its worth.

[00:09:24] Perhaps the most quoted verse in the Bible is John 3, 16.

[00:09:27] It tells us that Jesus came because God so loved the world.

[00:09:30] He came so that our souls would feel their worth to God.

[00:09:34] This hymn also asks us to consider the fact that the King of Kings was born as a human infant and placed in a manger.

[00:09:40] The King of Kings lay thus in lowly manger in all our trials, born to be our friend.

[00:09:46] He knows our need, to our weakness is no stranger.

[00:09:49] Behold your King before him lowly bend.

[00:09:53] Isn't it amazing that there were some who were willing to worship Him, even while merely a babe in the manger?

[00:09:59] This hymn then now talks about how we should respond to one another in humility.

[00:10:03] Truly He taught us to love one another.

[00:10:06] His law is love and His gospel is peace.

[00:10:09] Chains shall He break, for the slave is our brother, and in His name all oppression shall cease.

[00:10:15] You know, we no longer have slavery in this country,

[00:10:18] but it is true that many people are still enslaved to various forms of sin and need Jesus as their Savior.

[00:10:25] And we as believers are to model the humility that Jesus demonstrated when He stepped out of eternity into time

[00:10:31] and gave up His rights as God.

[00:10:33] This is a message we not only need at Christmas, but every day.

[00:10:38] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my Point of View.

[00:10:46] For a free booklet on biblical reliability, go to viewpoints.info slash biblical reliability.

[00:10:53] Viewpoints.info slash biblical reliability.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] Continue our conversation today with Cal Thomas as we talk about this book that's been out for quite a while,

[00:11:08] America's expiration date, but I would really commend it to you to begin to use this to maybe educate yourself

[00:11:15] and your children and grandchildren.

[00:11:17] The Fall of Empires and Superpowers and the Future of the United States.

[00:11:21] It's published by Zondervan.

[00:11:22] You might be able to find it in your local bookstore, but since it's been out for a while,

[00:11:25] we also give you a link so that you can get it in paperback, hardcover, or Kindle.

[00:11:30] And Cal, of course, your chapter on Roman Empire isn't as long simply because a lot of people have written about it,

[00:11:36] but in some respects we can learn some great lessons from Rome, can't we?

[00:11:39] Well, we can indeed.

[00:11:41] And one of them was overreach.

[00:11:44] The Romans dominated the world in their time, but they couldn't support financially or militarily that kind of regime forever.

[00:11:55] They tried to raise taxes on their people, and they rebelled, and they went into massive national debt,

[00:12:01] and they had no support after a while.

[00:12:04] And, you know, the old cliché Nero fiddled while Rome burned is not entirely untrue.

[00:12:12] I mean, he was a laissez-faire, do-your-own-thing, self-pleasure, follow-your-own-way kind of leader,

[00:12:21] and that was another factor that contributed to the fall of Rome.

[00:12:25] Now, of course, it lasted a lot longer than 250 years, but as I said earlier before the break,

[00:12:31] all of these empires followed one way or another, financially, morally, immigration, whatever it happened to be, debt, especially debt.

[00:12:41] No nation has ever had the kind of debt we have.

[00:12:45] Right.

[00:12:46] $34 trillion and counting, and the latest administration wants to add another $1.7 trillion and been able to survive.

[00:12:52] You can't do it in your personal life, and you certainly can't do it in our national life.

[00:12:57] You also have two cameos, one of Augusta Caesar and one of Nero.

[00:13:00] But let's stay on that economic issue for just a minute because there's a lot of similarity,

[00:13:05] not only the debt but this issue of inflation because what they would do is they would clip off parts of the coins,

[00:13:12] and so eventually the dollars or in this case the various drachmas and things like that were worth a lot less.

[00:13:21] And so when people say, well, inflation is a modern situation, it's a modern problem.

[00:13:26] No, it existed in the Roman Empire, and that's one of the reasons for its fall, isn't it?

[00:13:31] That's exactly right.

[00:13:32] And, you know, the administration now likes to say, well, look, we are cutting spending.

[00:13:38] Well, I analogize it this way.

[00:13:40] If you spend $500 last month on your credit card and this month you spent $400,

[00:13:47] you could claim that you're reducing your spending.

[00:13:50] But what you couldn't claim is that you're reducing the debt because $500 plus $400 is $900,

[00:13:56] and that is what your debt is.

[00:13:59] And so what the politicians have done is promote this fiction that they're actually cutting debt.

[00:14:06] And both parties are guilty of this.

[00:14:08] You know, Republicans used to talk about debt and not passing the debt alone to your children and grandchildren,

[00:14:14] but they've joined in this too, even when they have a majority of Congress and a president in the White House.

[00:14:20] And the reason for that is that so many people now have become addicted to government.

[00:14:26] You look at some of these, you know, during open season on Medicare, open enrollment I mean, the ads,

[00:14:33] they have four or five words in virtually all of them, free, deserve, benefit, and there's a fourth one that just went out of my head.

[00:14:43] But if you look at these words, they're O and entitled.

[00:14:48] That's the fourth one.

[00:14:48] Yeah, right.

[00:14:49] Free, benefit, deserve, and entitled.

[00:14:52] Now think about that.

[00:14:53] If you drum that into the minds of people and don't talk about personal responsibility or accountability,

[00:14:59] then you're going to have people looking to government to do things that government was never created to do.

[00:15:05] Our founders in this nation wanted government to be limited so the people would be unlimited.

[00:15:10] But what the politicians have done through so many government programs is addict people to government like it is a drug.

[00:15:19] And so now you have half the country paying for the other half of the country.

[00:15:23] You have half the country earning checks and the other half getting checks.

[00:15:28] You can't go on like this.

[00:15:30] You just can't.

[00:15:31] Again, the other illustration you use, you've got more people in the wagon than people pulling the wagon.

[00:15:36] And again, you've got just so many situations like that.

[00:15:40] I don't want to focus on every one of these empires, but there was another one that certainly struck me, and that is the Arab Empire, because we, of course, hear a lot about Islam.

[00:15:50] But you remind us of the fact that this was at one time a place where there was, of course, conquest and everything else.

[00:15:58] But there was also a time of intellect.

[00:16:00] I mean, when we talk about Arabic culture, we talk about mathematics, astronomy.

[00:16:07] Some of that was very significant art.

[00:16:11] And then you ask the question, what went wrong?

[00:16:13] And there are very significant and serious scholars that have looked at that and said, what went wrong?

[00:16:19] And it seems to me that those, as you say, intellectual pursuits and success did not inspire future generations.

[00:16:26] And it does seem to me we have a problem there.

[00:16:28] The art of the past seems to be a lot better than the art of the contemporary world.

[00:16:32] The ideas and principles that the previous generation, let's talk about the builder generation, boomer generation, haven't been passed on to generation X, Y, and Z.

[00:16:42] Would you see that there are any similarities there?

[00:16:46] Absolutely.

[00:16:46] I mean, there's a common denominator.

[00:16:49] You know, we're not the first generation to walk the earth.

[00:16:52] We didn't just crawl out of a cave.

[00:16:54] We don't have to discover the use of fire.

[00:16:56] We don't have to invent the wheel.

[00:16:58] We have generations that have gone before that we can learn from.

[00:17:02] Now, Arab culture was a powerful culture.

[00:17:05] As you mentioned, just some of the things.

[00:17:07] Mathematics was a major accomplishment among the Arab people.

[00:17:12] But what has gone wrong in recent centuries was this twisted and Wahhabi view of Islam, an advancing, militaristic, imposing worldview that is based on their Koran.

[00:17:29] And, you know, you have a couple of common denominators to all failed societies.

[00:17:34] One is the wrong governmental system.

[00:17:37] We have a constitutional republic.

[00:17:38] We are virtually alone in the world.

[00:17:40] Very few countries are like ours.

[00:17:43] And a wrong religious system.

[00:17:45] If you have a religious system, in this case, radical Islam, that teaches that there's an angry God who wants you to impose your beliefs on everybody else by force.

[00:17:56] This has a negative, a corrosive effect, not only in the culture that is part of this, notably Saudi Arabia, but others as well, but also on other nations where you can't have a conversation with some of these people.

[00:18:14] So I think that, you know, the wrong religious system, the wrong governmental system, and the wrong economic system are the three things that doom most cultures.

[00:18:24] We are very fortunate here, but we are an oasis in America, surrounded by a desert of all of these other false beliefs, economic beliefs, religious beliefs, political beliefs.

[00:18:38] And we had better continue to get this right, or we're going to go the way of these other nations and be a byword in history.

[00:18:46] What about the need to teach our young people?

[00:18:49] I've said before that it seems to me that a reasonable request would be to say before you graduate from high school, you should be at least be able to pass the citizenship test.

[00:18:59] Because right now you have people, Cal, that come to this country, learn our language, learn our politics, learn our history, pass the citizenship test.

[00:19:08] And a lot of young people couldn't even get a passing score on the citizenship test.

[00:19:13] Right, but they know all about transgenderism and pronouns and everything else.

[00:19:18] Look, if you look at the statistics that come out of the education department and this agency that regularly looks at the accomplishments, or in our case, the lack of them, of our students,

[00:19:32] you see how far behind we are in things that really matter, like science and mathematics, and how far ahead the Chinese are and a lot of other countries ahead of us.

[00:19:42] Now, if you don't produce young people who have at least a basic understanding of things that really matter and a major understanding of things that don't matter,

[00:19:54] then you are really going to doom your future.

[00:19:57] This is why I argue that, you know, I quote frequently the late First Lady Barbara Bush, who said,

[00:20:03] men and women, if you have children, they must come first.

[00:20:06] Our success as a nation, your success as a family depends less on what happens in the White House and more on what happens in your house.

[00:20:14] I've heard all of the excuses why people can't afford to send their kids to Christian schools,

[00:20:20] or my kid wants to play football and they don't offer it there.

[00:20:24] Well, football is not in Scripture.

[00:20:26] Train up a child in the way you should go.

[00:20:28] You know, I mean, this is crazy.

[00:20:30] We don't send our troops to foreign nations to be trained.

[00:20:34] We train them here.

[00:20:35] Why would we willingly send – why do we willingly send our kids to these public schools and universities

[00:20:42] that undermine their faith, that teach a critical race theory and all of these other things?

[00:20:48] It's crazy to me.

[00:20:49] And I think if you're going to have kids and it's not a sacrifice – let's get rid of that word.

[00:20:54] It's an investment.

[00:20:56] An investment presumes that you're going to get a return on your investment.

[00:21:00] That's why we have 401Ks and other things like that.

[00:21:05] And if you're going to have kids, then you need to invest them in the kingdom of God

[00:21:09] and not let the secular progressives teach their ideology to your children and grandchildren.

[00:21:15] Let's take a break.

[00:21:16] When we come back, we'll talk about a few of the other empires.

[00:21:19] There are a lot of lessons we can learn from empires that have fallen.

[00:21:22] And let's see what we can do here in America.

[00:21:25] We'll be back with Cal Thomas right after this.

[00:21:31] If you have ever wondered what kind of impact you have when you give to Point of View,

[00:21:37] let me introduce you to Bill.

[00:21:40] His story is a perfect illustration.

[00:21:43] Well, I've been a supporter at Point of View since the 70s,

[00:21:47] and I appreciate the fact that truth and love are discussed equally

[00:21:51] and that God's word never changes.

[00:21:54] We have four generations in my family who have been taught these things,

[00:21:58] these truths, and the fifth generation we've just been blessed with,

[00:22:02] who I'm sure will be blessed by this ministry also.

[00:22:05] So I just appreciate the fact that it's solid, it's truthful, it's honest,

[00:22:09] and there's no changing God's word.

[00:22:12] And that is the kind of multi-generational impact you have when you support Point of View.

[00:22:19] So give today.

[00:22:21] Equip the next generation with the clarity of God's unchanging word.

[00:22:26] You can give online at pointofview.net

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[00:22:36] That's pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:22:48] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:52] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views

[00:23:07] of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:10] And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson.

[00:23:13] Continue our conversation today with Cal Thomas.

[00:23:16] America's expiration date with a new preface by the author,

[00:23:20] The Fall of Empires and Superpowers and the Future of the United States,

[00:23:24] published by Zondervan.

[00:23:25] Of course, we have a link to that as well if you'd like to get it in paperback

[00:23:28] or hardcover or Kindle.

[00:23:30] And Cal, if we could, for just a minute, talk about the Spanish Empire

[00:23:33] because many of us learned about that in school as the explorers

[00:23:38] and then even the idea of conquest.

[00:23:40] But as you talk about the application,

[00:23:44] it's the old, those who live by the sword shall also die by the sword lesson,

[00:23:48] as you say.

[00:23:49] And when eventually Spain and the Spanish conquest and everything began to end,

[00:23:56] Spain was so consumed by problems that the greater powers didn't even invade it

[00:24:01] because they didn't see anything worth conquering.

[00:24:04] You know, we have military all over the world.

[00:24:07] We've been engaged in military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan

[00:24:11] and all sorts of places.

[00:24:13] And there comes a point in time you say,

[00:24:15] is that maybe the epitaph of the United States?

[00:24:19] What are your thoughts?

[00:24:19] Well, Kirby, Spain and Rome and some of these other empires made the same mistake

[00:24:27] with overreach and an inability and eventually an unwillingness to maintain those empires.

[00:24:35] Conquering other people is not a good model for sustaining yourself as a nation.

[00:24:41] You're going to have great resistance because the people didn't welcome these invaders,

[00:24:47] these conquerors, they didn't want to have things imposed upon them.

[00:24:51] And so after a while, one of two things, and in the case of Spain and Rome, happened.

[00:24:58] The cost gets too much.

[00:25:01] The people of Spain and of Rome are too tired of having to do what was necessary

[00:25:08] to maintain this economic force and this military force.

[00:25:12] You see some of the resistance right now in Russia,

[00:25:17] although the protesters are pretty regularly locked up, about the war in Ukraine.

[00:25:22] An awful lot of Russians don't want their sons mostly and daughters, I guess,

[00:25:28] being sent off to fight in a war that seems to be endless.

[00:25:32] And I think that's the same thing that had happen with Spain and with Rome.

[00:25:38] Conquered people don't like to remain conquered,

[00:25:40] and that's why we have so many revolutions around the world.

[00:25:44] But there are two ways.

[00:25:45] You know, we're being conquered by a foreign power,

[00:25:48] and I don't mean Russia or China, although they would like to conquer us, I think,

[00:25:52] or radical Islam.

[00:25:54] The foreign power that we are being conquered with is a secular progressivism.

[00:26:00] Yes.

[00:26:00] Is a major departure from our Constitution, the limits of government,

[00:26:07] the unlimited freedoms of the United States,

[00:26:10] the constant and never-ending threats to the Second Amendment,

[00:26:16] increasingly the First Amendment, religious freedom, freedom of speech.

[00:26:22] The Bible clearly teaches that believers are going to be persecuted.

[00:26:26] Jesus said this himself.

[00:26:28] But that doesn't mean we have to lie down and just take it.

[00:26:32] We need, in a constitutional republic especially, to renew these values that we have.

[00:26:38] And that's why I go back to the education system.

[00:26:41] It all begins there with the next generation of young people.

[00:26:45] Let's, if we can, maybe talk about the British Empire, where the sun never sets.

[00:26:48] Of course it did.

[00:26:49] And that's another, if you will, invasion,

[00:26:52] because you point out that the United States is currently engaged in a debate over immigration,

[00:26:58] and a country that cannot control its borders certainly is going to have difficulty.

[00:27:03] And in some respects, isn't that at least one of the lessons out of the British Empire?

[00:27:08] Yes, it is.

[00:27:09] And they overextended themselves, and especially in India.

[00:27:13] I mean, when you're occupying a country with a completely different culture,

[00:27:18] a different language, a different religious system,

[00:27:21] in the case of India, of course, Hindu mostly,

[00:27:25] and you have what they perceive as these white Christian invaders coming in

[00:27:31] and telling them that they need to be more like the British and less like Indians.

[00:27:36] And this was a problem in Africa and in many other countries that the British were occupying.

[00:27:42] And once again, the people got tired of it.

[00:27:45] It got too expensive.

[00:27:46] Certainly those who had been conquered were tired of it.

[00:27:48] And the British were brutal.

[00:27:50] They certainly were brutal in ancient Palestine or modern Palestine

[00:27:54] before the nation of Israel was recognized again.

[00:27:59] I say recognized again because the Jewish people have had a presence there for 3,000 years.

[00:28:06] So it wasn't created.

[00:28:08] It was just recognized as preexisting.

[00:28:11] So the British were brutal against the Jews, and they finally pulled out,

[00:28:16] and we saw the result of that.

[00:28:19] But I think that, you know, the British Empire, again, followed the same paths as some of these others,

[00:28:25] and that's why today it's a shadow of itself.

[00:28:28] You even have rebellion.

[00:28:29] You have rebellions going on in Scotland.

[00:28:31] They've had several elections about separation.

[00:28:36] They didn't win the Separatists, but Wales has talked about it.

[00:28:40] There are still problems in Northern Ireland where I used to own property and would go there.

[00:28:46] It's settled down a lot since the Good Friday agreements several years ago,

[00:28:50] but there are still tensions there, not only on the island but also with London.

[00:28:56] So, you know, again, human nature, conflict, desire to satisfy your lower nature,

[00:29:02] all of these things are part of a sinful people,

[00:29:05] and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

[00:29:08] What about the Russian Empire?

[00:29:10] First of all, I appreciate it so much because not only do you have some quotes from Alexander Solzhenitsyn,

[00:29:15] you have two appendices in the back, and I have read those,

[00:29:19] but I suspect a lot of our listeners have never actually read some of his famous speeches

[00:29:24] and things of that nature, but we can learn a lot from Russia, can't we?

[00:29:28] We can indeed.

[00:29:29] You know, as Robert Burns wrote in a different context,

[00:29:32] would someone the gift to give us to see ourselves as others see us?

[00:29:36] When Solzhenitsyn came to Harvard for the first time, the New York Times was thrilled.

[00:29:42] They had campaigned for his release, the publication of his marvelous books,

[00:29:48] which were censored in Russia.

[00:29:49] But he came to Harvard the first time, and he lectured America,

[00:29:54] saying some of the things I've said in the book,

[00:29:56] and that's why I printed that speech from Harvard, and something else he said,

[00:30:02] because he recognized where we were headed,

[00:30:06] because he could see in his own country the kinds of challenges that we were facing as well,

[00:30:13] a top-down authoritarianism, a loss of religious faith,

[00:30:18] a refusal to embrace a moral value system, all of these things.

[00:30:23] And then all of a sudden, right after that speech, the New York Times turned on him.

[00:30:27] He was criticized by some of the Harvard faculty.

[00:30:31] You know, Nathan Pusey, when he was president of Harvard a century ago,

[00:30:34] said something really profound.

[00:30:36] He said,

[00:30:36] The least that should be expected of a Harvard graduate

[00:30:39] is that he learned to pronounce the name of God without embarrassment.

[00:30:44] Now at Harvard and so many other places, God has become the embarrassment.

[00:30:48] You can use him as a blasphemy, but don't ever speak well of it.

[00:30:51] That says something, too, about the nature of our education system in America.

[00:30:57] You also have cameos on Nicholas II and Catherine the Great,

[00:31:01] and certainly one day after the break get to, of course, the United States of America.

[00:31:06] But one other aspect of certainly this issue of Russia

[00:31:09] is it doesn't necessarily follow along the lines that we've talked about

[00:31:13] most of these empires about 250 years.

[00:31:16] Russia is somewhat unique in that it doesn't necessarily follow the pattern

[00:31:21] in that you've had Russia.

[00:31:24] Of course, you have Orthodox Russia.

[00:31:25] You have Communist Russia.

[00:31:27] You have who knows what you want to call Russia right now.

[00:31:29] And so that does kind of break the pattern up, doesn't it?

[00:31:33] Well, it does in some ways.

[00:31:34] But, you know, I kind of like Catherine the Great,

[00:31:36] not because she was really a great person,

[00:31:38] but because she was part of a major soap opera

[00:31:41] with her no-good weenie husband and her son.

[00:31:45] And she's a fascinating character,

[00:31:49] as a lot of people in Russia in history were.

[00:31:52] One of the reasons Dr. Zhivago was such a popular book

[00:31:55] and an even more popular movie

[00:31:57] is because it, you know, exposed some of the good and the bad

[00:32:03] and mostly the ugly things about the communist system.

[00:32:06] And, of course, it had some great actors in Omar Sharif and Julie Christie,

[00:32:10] which didn't hurt either.

[00:32:11] But, you know, we are fascinated, or ought to be,

[00:32:14] by other things that have happened in the world and in our history

[00:32:17] and in the history of the world.

[00:32:19] And I think that, yes, Russia didn't follow the exact pattern

[00:32:23] of some of these other nations, but it followed enough of them,

[00:32:27] especially its desire to expand.

[00:32:31] I mean, modern Russia is nine time zones.

[00:32:34] Now imagine that.

[00:32:35] We only have four in America.

[00:32:37] This is more than double.

[00:32:39] Enormous amount of space.

[00:32:41] And it's not a wealthy country.

[00:32:43] They are way behind us economically and in some other areas.

[00:32:49] But, of course, they've got nuclear missiles,

[00:32:51] which pushed them on a par.

[00:32:53] And then some with us.

[00:32:55] Let's take a break.

[00:32:56] When we come back, we'll talk about, of course, the United States of America.

[00:32:59] Nine different empires.

[00:33:01] And we've looked at more than a majority of those.

[00:33:04] But we've left the last segment here to talk about the United States.

[00:33:08] And also it starts with, of course, this famous quote in Isaiah chapter 40.

[00:33:13] Surely the nations are like a drop in a bucket.

[00:33:16] They are regarded as dust on the scales.

[00:33:18] He weighs the islands as though they were fine dust.

[00:33:23] And so we'll come back and talk about where is America going?

[00:33:27] What will actually be its final part of this empire?

[00:33:32] And if you would like to know more about it, it's all part of this book.

[00:33:36] America's Expiration Date, the Fall of Empires and Superpowers and the Future of the United States.

[00:33:41] Read by Cal Thomas.

[00:33:42] We'll be back with him right after this.

[00:33:56] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:34:01] Back for a few more minutes.

[00:34:02] Cal Thomas with us.

[00:34:03] Let me just mention we do have a link to calthomas.com.

[00:34:06] You can find out more about his books, about his transcripts, his commentaries, his columns, all sorts of resources that are there.

[00:34:13] And we're talking about this book, America's Expiration Date, the Fall of Empires and Superpowers and the Future of the United States.

[00:34:20] It is published by Zondervan.

[00:34:21] And Cal, this last chapter is a longer one on the United States because you give us both the philosophy,

[00:34:28] the philosophical and historical background of America, the major universities founded on a biblical point of view that were Christian-oriented

[00:34:36] and certainly the religious heritage of America all the way down to the present.

[00:34:41] But then you also give some very practical suggestions on what parents and grandparents can do to begin to turn this around.

[00:34:49] So share with us some of the ideas that you have in that chapter.

[00:34:52] Well, I mentioned a little bit earlier, Kirby, and I've been speaking about this for years.

[00:34:59] If people would take the time to look up two words in a good concordance or even do a Google search on what the Bible says about teaching and learning.

[00:35:10] Just look up the words teach and learn.

[00:35:12] And you will see all sorts of verses about what God requires of those of us who are believers and the children he has entrusted to us for a brief time.

[00:35:24] Now, nobody can force a child.

[00:35:27] Anybody with teenagers knows this.

[00:35:28] But you can bring them up with the right foundation.

[00:35:33] And even if they depart in later years, the Holy Spirit can bring them back.

[00:35:39] We have got to do a better job of educating the next generation or we're going to lose not only them, we're going to lose the country too.

[00:35:48] Not all of the founders were believers, of course.

[00:35:52] But they – and certainly Thomas Jefferson wasn't.

[00:35:54] I mean, not only was he a slave owner, but in his work on the Notes of Virginia,

[00:36:01] he just demeaned black people saying that they basically were subhuman.

[00:36:07] But at the same time, he wrote in the Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal, not evolved from slime,

[00:36:14] and they're endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights.

[00:36:19] So rights come not from government but from God.

[00:36:23] I remember doing a debate once at Dartmouth, another school that had a great biblical foundation.

[00:36:32] And during the question time, this student gets up in the back and says – this was during the time that Reagan was putting Pershing missiles in Europe to counter the Soviet threat.

[00:36:42] And he said, well, you're supposed to be a Christian, Mr. Thomas.

[00:36:46] What about turning the other cheek and loving your enemy?

[00:36:48] I said, don't sit down, young man.

[00:36:50] It's wonderful to see a believer here at Dartmouth once again.

[00:36:54] And I guess you all also believe Jesus when he said, I'm the way, the truth, and the life.

[00:37:00] No man comes to their father but by me, right?

[00:37:02] He says, not exactly.

[00:37:04] I said, then sit down.

[00:37:05] So, you know, don't cherry pick my faith, okay?

[00:37:10] So if we want to preserve this country, much like my father did and his brothers in World War II in fighting, not for Franklin Roosevelt or against him,

[00:37:22] but for fighting to maintain the American ideal, it's a cliche, but freedom isn't free.

[00:37:27] It does cost.

[00:37:29] Sometimes it costs blood.

[00:37:31] And we need a new examination of what our presence in the world is, by the way.

[00:37:36] You had mentioned earlier, you know, we get all these wars going on and troops all over the world.

[00:37:41] We need to reexamine this, too, and what is in America's best interest.

[00:37:46] So I think that each generation has to renew these values or we're going to lose them.

[00:37:52] It's like a library book.

[00:37:53] Some of us are old enough to remember libraries.

[00:37:56] I mean, you take out a book for three weeks or so, and if you hadn't finished it or want to read it again,

[00:38:01] you'd have to go back to the library and renew it.

[00:38:04] And it's the same with, you know, we're living off the inertia of the World War II greatest generation,

[00:38:10] and that inertia has just about run out.

[00:38:13] And if we don't renew what they believed and what they fought for and were willing to die for and so many did,

[00:38:19] then we're not going to have a country anymore.

[00:38:22] We're just not.

[00:38:23] You also talk about the age of decadence and quote from Rod Dreyer.

[00:38:27] Of course, we've interviewed him many times and even Christian Smith and others because you do have,

[00:38:32] among younger people, this kind of moralistic, therapeutic deism.

[00:38:36] It's not biblical faith, and it seems to me that we should be teaching and preaching that from the pulpit like never before

[00:38:43] and teaching it in our Sunday school classes because if we're going to be a remnant in the midst of some of the darkness,

[00:38:49] the best thing we can do is light some lamps.

[00:38:53] Kirby, you're absolutely right.

[00:38:54] And I am just astounded at the biblical illiteracy in this country, including among a lot of believers.

[00:39:03] You hear stories, and we've heard it recently, about people who have died.

[00:39:07] And here's Joe Lieberman, who I really admire, a really great man, an Orthodox Jew,

[00:39:13] one of the few moderates left in our political system.

[00:39:18] And I'm hearing on the radio and on television, oh, well, he's up there now with John McCain,

[00:39:25] and they're having a great conversation.

[00:39:27] What a stupid thing to say.

[00:39:30] I mean, this just boggles my mind.

[00:39:33] The most important questions that could ever be asked, is there a God?

[00:39:38] Can I know him?

[00:39:40] Does heaven exist?

[00:39:41] How do I get there?

[00:39:43] Who is Jesus, as we observe Good Friday and his resurrection on Easter Sunday?

[00:39:50] You've got a lot of professed believers and churchgoers who have trouble quoting scripture,

[00:39:57] who buy into this business that good people are going to heaven and salvation is by works.

[00:40:04] It just blows me away.

[00:40:06] Hey, this is bad preaching in a lot of our churches, bad teaching, and a lot of biblical ignorance.

[00:40:14] People have the Bible on the shelf in their homes, but too many don't have God's words in their hearts.

[00:40:21] I just mentioned that your last section there, Is There Still Time?

[00:40:24] And, again, you have some very practical suggestions.

[00:40:27] But just before we let you go, I did mention the fact that we have a link to your website,

[00:40:32] calthomas.com.

[00:40:33] Your columns are there, information about your books, the transcripts of your commentaries, and much more.

[00:40:39] So if people would like to know more about you or connect with you, what will they find when they land on your website?

[00:40:47] Well, they'll find an updated picture, which is not too bad, given my age.

[00:40:51] But, as you say, my column used to be in over 500 newspapers, but the newspaper industry, as you know, is in trouble,

[00:41:01] and so it's about half that now.

[00:41:03] So if I'm not in your local newspaper, you can call up the editor and, man, they carry me.

[00:41:08] But, you know, if you want to know, all my columns are published, as you say, on my website,

[00:41:13] and these radio transcripts I do five days a week are also, though, along with links to the book.

[00:41:18] I also might mention that, of course, you get them published in other places,

[00:41:22] and we actually quoted from you earlier in the week.

[00:41:25] So many times we post some of your commentaries as well, some of the most recent ones.

[00:41:30] So, again, those are all available at our website at pointofview.net.

[00:41:33] And, of course, you can also go to calthomas.com.

[00:41:37] And it is encouraging to see you still blowing and going,

[00:41:40] and certainly say hi to your sweet wife, CJ,

[00:41:43] because we appreciate the fact that you have a new step in your walk,

[00:41:47] and it's just been really exciting to see how God has been continually using you all these years.

[00:41:52] Well, he's done exceedingly abundantly above all I asked or even thought,

[00:41:56] and I'm most grateful to him and, as you say, most grateful to my wife,

[00:42:00] to whom the book America's Expiration Date is dedicated.

[00:42:04] Very good.

[00:42:05] America's Expiration Date, The Fall of Empires and Superpowers and the Future of the United States.

[00:42:09] Let me just encourage you to get a copy of the book.

[00:42:12] When it first came out, Rush Limbaugh endorsed it.

[00:42:15] Of course, that's not a contemporary endorsement,

[00:42:17] but you have other endorsements from Newt Gingrich, Peggy Noonan, Eric Metaxas.

[00:42:21] I am thinking of maybe even doing a week of radio programs on another venue,

[00:42:25] maybe talking about this.

[00:42:27] I'm probably going to do some commentaries on it.

[00:42:29] I do commend it to you.

[00:42:30] It may be a way that you can begin to educate young people.

[00:42:34] If your child is going to a Christian school, you might say,

[00:42:37] Teacher, this would be a very good book to work our way through,

[00:42:40] not only to learn the history, but to learn some of the spiritual lessons

[00:42:45] about mistakes that previous empires have made,

[00:42:49] and to then evaluate whether we're making some of those same mistakes today.

[00:42:54] You know, you think about this during, especially in election season,

[00:42:57] you begin to wonder, maybe this is the kind of material that we should pass on to

[00:43:01] a number of individuals.

[00:43:02] But again, one last time, America's expiration date,

[00:43:06] the fall of empires and superpowers in the future of the United States.

[00:43:09] We'll be back right after this.

[00:43:11] Our nation is experiencing a major realignment right now.

[00:43:16] Political and cultural frameworks are shifting.

[00:43:19] Perhaps for the first time in a long time,

[00:43:22] some things are starting to shift in a positive direction.

[00:43:25] But as this political and cultural realignment takes place,

[00:43:30] another realignment is desperately needed,

[00:43:33] a realignment to God's Word.

[00:43:36] Data shows that few Americans' worldview is aligned with Biblical truth,

[00:43:41] but you can help change that by partnering with Point of View,

[00:43:45] where God's truth comes first.

[00:43:48] When you support Point of View,

[00:43:50] Every dollar you give ensures that a Biblical perspective is accessible

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[00:44:28] Point of View will continue after this.