Point of View December 12, 2024 – Hour 1 : Trust Matters

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson.

[00:00:20] Thank you for joining me. It is the Thursday edition of Point of View. In the first hour, we're going to talk about this issue of trust.

[00:00:25] If you've listened to Point of View any length of time, you know that one of the words you hear so often is truth, but one that relates very close to it is trust.

[00:00:34] As a matter of fact, my commentaries for both Monday and Tuesday, actually I guess they ended up being on Tuesday and Wednesday,

[00:00:39] really talked about how to read, real and really maybe discern some of the comments that are being made by individuals,

[00:00:48] whether those are trustworthy and whether they're true. And so I think you're going to really benefit from this book.

[00:00:54] If you're involved in any kind of leadership, and most of us are, Trust Matters is a book that you would certainly want to know about.

[00:01:00] But of course, as we are so often talking about here on the program, can we trust some of the things people in the media or government say?

[00:01:08] Even my commentary that we sent out to you today by email goes into some of those questions about what is true and what can I trust?

[00:01:18] So I think you're going to find some of the tools that we're going to be providing to you very helpful.

[00:01:22] And we're going to look at about 40 different proven ways to begin to use some of these in a way to lead better and to grow faster.

[00:01:31] We'll also be talking about eight traits or pillars. I'll start with the letter C.

[00:01:36] And if you talk about trust, what's so interesting is my brother for many years worked at Deloitte and Deloitte recently concluded that trusted companies outperformed their market peers by up to 400%.

[00:01:48] So there are certainly a lot of implications and applications that we can be talking about today in this first hour.

[00:01:57] And we are privileged to have with us Dr. David Horshager.

[00:02:00] And he is the CEO of Trust Edge Leadership.

[00:02:03] No doubt you probably have seen, as I have, some of the YouTube videos by him out there.

[00:02:08] Probably best known for his book, Trust Edge.

[00:02:11] But now we want to talk about this book, Trust Matters More Than Ever.

[00:02:15] And he is an individual that has taken a lot of the Trust Edge material to groups like Delta Airlines and McDonald's and FedEx and the New York Yankees and Walmart and many other groups.

[00:02:27] We have a link to his website.

[00:02:29] We also have a link to Trust Edge.

[00:02:31] And we also have a link to the book, which has been out since November.

[00:02:36] So, David, thank you for joining us today here on Point of View.

[00:02:39] Great to be on with you, Kirby.

[00:02:41] Thanks so much.

[00:02:42] Well, this trust issue is something I've heard you in front of audiences say that lots of times people think that one of the most important things they can actually use in order to lead people or to influence people is expertise.

[00:02:57] Not that that's unimportant.

[00:02:58] But you make the case that trust may be the most important, and that's why you founded an entire organization around it.

[00:03:05] Speak to that.

[00:03:06] Well, yeah, in 1999, I had been in full-time ministry, moved back.

[00:03:10] I'll tell you what, it's not a might for me.

[00:03:13] It's absolutely true.

[00:03:15] Now, my grad work from a couple decades ago and everything we've seen in working with, you know, militaries and global governments and presidents of countries and sales organizations and leadership organizations and ministries, it is always a trust issue at the core.

[00:03:28] And I believe actually the core issue, this is part of the problem, is people are trying to solve the wrong thing.

[00:03:33] They think they have a leadership issue, and of course I know what they mean, but they never do.

[00:03:37] Actually, at the core, they have a trust issue.

[00:03:39] People only follow a leader based on trust.

[00:03:41] Dictators are different with a gun into your head, but I mean, they follow a leader only based on trust.

[00:03:46] You don't have a sales issue at the core.

[00:03:48] The reason people buy has something to do with trust.

[00:03:50] You don't have a – innovation won't go up on a team unless they feel like they can share ideas, and if they don't trust each other, they won't.

[00:03:56] And so their innovation is squelched.

[00:03:58] If you have learning in a classroom or in a church or ministry anywhere, it does not happen unless you trust the teacher, the content, or, you know, the safety or trust of the room.

[00:04:09] Even, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion.

[00:04:10] I mean, the biggest Harvard study shows diversity of almost any kind puts or pits people against each other unless you increase trust.

[00:04:17] Then you can get benefits from it.

[00:04:19] So marketing messages are only amplified when I trust a message.

[00:04:21] You have to deal with trust.

[00:04:23] So that was the first finding, how a lack of trust really is the biggest expense in a company, a country, a GDP, a church, a ministry, or a personal relationship.

[00:04:34] Well, again, people are going to be more likely to work for an organization that has trusted leadership.

[00:04:39] They're more likely to invest in a company that has some kind of trust and certainly one that is trustworthy.

[00:04:48] And back to this, we're a talk show.

[00:04:50] I've oftentimes said I would hope that we would be your trusted source for news, information, and commentary.

[00:04:56] So that all works.

[00:04:57] But I guess the first thing we need to do, David, is talk about what trust is.

[00:05:01] You call it a confident belief in a person to do what is good and right on a consistent basis.

[00:05:08] You know, you could use Bible verses for that.

[00:05:10] But whether you're looking at it from a Christian point of view or a secular point of view, that's really what we're talking about, isn't it?

[00:05:17] Trust is really a confident belief in.

[00:05:20] That's right.

[00:05:20] And by the way, in the general sense, I can trust you for good or bad.

[00:05:24] If you're late consistently, I will trust you to be late.

[00:05:30] Right?

[00:05:31] So what we're talking about is this confident belief in to do is right and good consistently.

[00:05:36] And that is where we gain originally, you know, my first bestseller, Trust Edge, it was kind of this confident belief in a person, product, organization.

[00:05:43] When I have that, I gain this edge or this advantage, you know, of being trusted.

[00:05:48] And it's the greatest advantage you can have in business and life.

[00:05:50] Like the first half of the research kind of proved out how when trust goes up, that's when output, morale, retention, productivity, innovation, loyalty goes up, cost, problems, skepticism, suspicion, it goes down.

[00:06:00] So, you know, we have to have people thinking, and the first half of the research kind of showed, you know, you can think of it simply, right?

[00:06:09] Without all the research, I mean, why would I put a lock on anything?

[00:06:12] There is only one reason I put a lock on something.

[00:06:15] It's because I don't trust you.

[00:06:17] So then we say, well, okay, what's the cost of putting a lock on something?

[00:06:21] Well, I got to buy it.

[00:06:22] That's money.

[00:06:23] But that's a big cost, you know, the lack of trust.

[00:06:26] I got to buy that.

[00:06:26] But the big cost is time, the second cost.

[00:06:30] Now every time I go through the gate, every time I open the mailbox, every time I open the door, I've got it.

[00:06:35] What if it's a combination lock?

[00:06:36] Oh, my goodness, forevermore.

[00:06:38] You know, it takes forever.

[00:06:39] So this is a big cost.

[00:06:40] But people that are listening and think about it, you know, where if they have teenagers like I do, okay, let's say they're going out Friday night with friends.

[00:06:48] Let's say you trust those friends they're with.

[00:06:51] Oh, it just feels great.

[00:06:52] Now let's say that you don't trust who they're going out with.

[00:06:54] It's the biggest stress you have as a parent.

[00:06:56] It is.

[00:06:56] You think about it as a team or a company or an organization or church or whatever.

[00:07:01] It's like you've got someone on your team.

[00:07:03] They've got your back.

[00:07:03] You trust them.

[00:07:04] Oh, no, I don't have to double check.

[00:07:06] It doesn't cost me time.

[00:07:07] It doesn't cost me time.

[00:07:08] Great.

[00:07:09] Now think of someone on your team you don't trust.

[00:07:11] That is the biggest stress you have.

[00:07:13] Or you're bored or, you know, whatever.

[00:07:15] So it's really a lack of trust.

[00:07:19] We've used it now.

[00:07:21] The first company we knew we had something with this is that they said we drove attrition down by $2 to $4 million in nine months.

[00:07:27] We've had one of the biggest companies in the world say they increased engagement scores for the first time in 14 years in a business unit.

[00:07:34] We've had a Fortune 50 company say it helped them gain 11% market share in a billion-dollar unit.

[00:07:39] We've had people say it tripled their sales.

[00:07:41] We've had people say it saved their marriage.

[00:07:43] The Admiral of the Navy said 15,000 people were trained in this trust work.

[00:07:47] And then 75 captains and senior leaders were certified in it, and they said they had suicide rates once down.

[00:07:56] So we solve against this.

[00:07:58] Now, I can get into what the Bible says about all this, too, but just on a matter of fact, sexual research level,

[00:08:03] that's, by the way, all biblical truth.

[00:08:05] This is all biblical truth.

[00:08:07] People just don't tend to know where I'm working.

[00:08:10] But it really affects change, this trust work.

[00:08:14] Yes.

[00:08:14] Let me take a break, and when we come back, I want to get into some other issues.

[00:08:18] And, you know, we've mentioned Patrick Luntzioni, and, of course, he has the five dysfunctions of a team,

[00:08:23] and the base of that pyramid is trust.

[00:08:26] So, obviously, many people have been talking about it, but this is the man that many of us have seen in various YouTube videos,

[00:08:32] and perhaps you've even heard him come and speak on the issue of trust.

[00:08:35] And we're going to talk about those eight pillars.

[00:08:38] And if you're one of those people who likes to take notes, you might number from one to eight.

[00:08:41] We'll see if we can cover all eight in this hour.

[00:08:44] We'll be back right after this.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] Before the election, I would often do a feature on problems the next administration will face no matter who was elected.

[00:09:08] Now that we know that it will be the Trump administration that will face these issues,

[00:09:12] one of the most difficult to resolve will be federal deficits.

[00:09:15] Lynn Alden, author of Broken Money, has written about this and appeared on the Fox News program Making Money with Charles Payne.

[00:09:23] Federal deficits are hard to fix for many reasons.

[00:09:26] First is the issue of Social Security.

[00:09:28] Put simply, the math breaks down when population growth slows down.

[00:09:32] The ratio between those who pay into it and those who receive has steadily declined for decades.

[00:09:38] And the Social Security fund that has built up for decades is shrinking.

[00:09:41] A second issue is health care spending.

[00:09:44] The U.S. not only spends more money per person on health care,

[00:09:47] but it also has the highest rate of people with multiple chronic conditions,

[00:09:50] and the obesity rate is twice that of other developed countries.

[00:09:54] The accumulated debt interest is a third major issue.

[00:09:57] For the past four decades, the U.S. has had a rising debt-to-GDP ratio while also falling interest rates.

[00:10:04] Politicians aren't likely to choose austerity,

[00:10:07] even if the government efficiency department recommends significant cuts.

[00:10:11] Therefore, increasing the money supply by printing more money becomes the only option.

[00:10:15] This leads to the fourth issue, the financialization of tax receipts.

[00:10:19] Let's assume that the next administration could shrink the deficit through tax increases and spending cuts.

[00:10:25] It won't have as much impact because asset prices in this country are more correlated to the performance of the stock market.

[00:10:32] These are just a few reasons why the next administration will face significant obstacles

[00:10:37] in trying to reduce the size of federal deficits.

[00:10:40] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Loneliness,

[00:10:51] go to viewpoints.info slash loneliness.

[00:10:54] That's viewpoints.info slash loneliness.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] Privileged to have with us today Dr. David Horsager,

[00:11:06] and he is an individual that has certainly been speaking to this issue of truth for some time.

[00:11:11] Truth Edge Leadership Institute, we have a link to that.

[00:11:14] We also have a link to his personal website if you'd like to have him come and speak.

[00:11:18] We have, of course, information about the book, which I'm sure you'll probably be able to find in your local bookstore,

[00:11:22] about 280 pages.

[00:11:24] But if not, we have a way in which you can get it also online as well.

[00:11:28] And we're going to be spending in just a minute really looking at these eight pillars.

[00:11:33] I'll start with the letter C that are so key to trust.

[00:11:37] But I thought, David, for just a minute, you do have a chapter on the fact that trust matters and that it works.

[00:11:43] But more importantly, what happened, and that is in some respects we have seen a decline in not only the trust we have for government,

[00:11:53] that's one of the charts you have in there, but a lack of trust in the church,

[00:11:56] a lack of trust in people that are financial analysts, and so much more.

[00:12:02] There is a need for your message of trust like never before, isn't there?

[00:12:07] Well, it seems like it, and we sure are busy at an institute.

[00:12:11] We've put one of the biggest pieces of research on trust and leadership out of the institute here,

[00:12:16] and we watch it.

[00:12:17] But we do spend – I'm excited to get into the C's later because that's how trust is built globally.

[00:12:22] That's the framework that everything hangs on.

[00:12:26] And, you know, there has been – if you take the history of trust, a long time ago I might not have trusted for two reasons.

[00:12:32] I didn't know you.

[00:12:33] I don't know what you – haven't been around you.

[00:12:36] Or I do know you, and I know what you act like, right?

[00:12:38] And then it became institutionalized, and, you know, we had institutions of trust,

[00:12:42] and that helped actually.

[00:12:43] It strengthened things because I didn't – I could have one bad politician but not say the whole government was bad

[00:12:48] or one bad teacher and not have the whole education be wrong or bad.

[00:12:51] But institutional trust has tanked in the last 30 years, especially in America.

[00:12:56] And so we have, you know, less than – it used to be 80% trusted our government to do base was right.

[00:13:03] Now it's less than 20%.

[00:13:04] You have the media.

[00:13:05] You remember when we had the news, not anymore.

[00:13:08] They got their news.

[00:13:08] You got your news.

[00:13:09] Where do you get your news?

[00:13:10] And it's not – you know, there's not seemingly absolute anymore.

[00:13:13] We don't trust education as much as we used to.

[00:13:15] When we grew up, homeschooling was weird.

[00:13:17] Now it's the fastest-growing way of education in America.

[00:13:20] So you have these institutions that tank.

[00:13:22] So then we had distributed trust.

[00:13:23] You have blockchain and Lyft and, you know, Uber.

[00:13:27] And it's like I didn't think I was supposed to get in a car with someone I didn't know, but I guess so.

[00:13:30] Okay.

[00:13:30] And then we're coming back to something interesting, you know,

[00:13:34] and that is just simply, Kirby, that we're getting more personal again.

[00:13:38] In fact, it's coming back to personal.

[00:13:40] Like I want to know you, see you.

[00:13:41] I know, you know, Google reviews are not all true, so I don't – I know the deep fakes.

[00:13:46] This is fake.

[00:13:46] I know that people are lying to me here.

[00:13:48] I know that I'm not big on all kinds of regulations, but the two regulations that were pulled from media, you know,

[00:13:56] made it so basically cable news, at least you don't have to tell the truth.

[00:13:58] So whether you're both under Reagan and under Clinton, both sides you have this lack of accountability that has made it so there's less trust too.

[00:14:07] So, you know, it's tanked in a lot of ways, and yet it's more important than ever.

[00:14:11] And there are places where you can find it and see what happens in Rwanda and in America in certain places.

[00:14:18] So, you know, I think a lack of it's the biggest expense we have.

[00:14:23] And fundamentally, you know, by the way, God's been talking about this a long time.

[00:14:27] If you go back and say, you know, in Exodus 18, Jethro's talking to Moses, you know, select for yourself men that are trustworthy.

[00:14:34] And even what to trust, Proverbs 3, 5, you have to trust the Lord with all your heart, not in your understanding.

[00:14:39] And Numbers, you know, Moses and Aaron don't get to go in the promised land because they didn't trust God enough.

[00:14:44] And so there's this whole thing of who to trust, but then there's these eight pillars are amplified by the verses of how trust is actually built.

[00:14:51] So good.

[00:14:52] Well, again, let's work our way through the pillars.

[00:14:54] I might just mention as we do, you have what are called trust tools throughout.

[00:14:58] But the first pillar is clarity.

[00:15:00] And that's the old line that if it's a misty in the pulpit, it's foggy in the pews.

[00:15:04] In other words, if you cannot clarify what your vision is, whether it's in a church, a Christian organization, whether it's in a business, whether it is in an ad campaign, whatever it might be.

[00:15:15] And when people aren't clear, you wonder if they just don't understand what they're communicating or whether they're trying to hide something.

[00:15:24] So clarity is one of those foundational pillars of trustworthiness, isn't it?

[00:15:30] People trust the clear and they mistrust.

[00:15:32] The research shows the ambiguous or the overly complex.

[00:15:35] So where I was a professor, oh, we want to look complex and look smart.

[00:15:39] Nope, you lose clarity.

[00:15:40] And by the way, when I talk about clarity, I think people can quickly think they get it.

[00:15:43] I'm telling you, they don't.

[00:15:45] I work.

[00:15:46] It's I'm talking about in this noisy, busy world, a whole different level of clarity.

[00:15:51] Instead of 15 words, three words.

[00:15:54] Instead of this, this.

[00:15:55] I mean, it's got it takes branding companies, marketing companies do not get the value of clarity today.

[00:16:01] And I'm telling you, clarity wins over clever.

[00:16:03] It is so critical to be clear.

[00:16:07] And, you know, you said these start with C's and they do.

[00:16:11] But please don't think of them as kind of some sermonette that we had to line up with C's.

[00:16:14] They each represent a really important research funnel.

[00:16:17] These eight funnels are how trust is.

[00:16:19] We call them pillars in the book.

[00:16:21] Eight pillars are how trust is built globally.

[00:16:23] And then, of course, in trust matters more than ever.

[00:16:25] They have tools.

[00:16:26] One quick tool, just of all, you know, something I can do very quickly.

[00:16:30] If you're a pastor, if you're a leader and your message is not MRA, it doesn't matter today.

[00:16:37] One of the tools, run it through this.

[00:16:39] Is it memorable?

[00:16:40] Is it repeatable?

[00:16:41] And is it actionable?

[00:16:42] Is it all three of those?

[00:16:44] If you have values that aren't actionable, they're just kind of this thing, but they're not actionable.

[00:16:47] It doesn't matter.

[00:16:48] If they're not memorable, if they're not repeatable, it doesn't matter.

[00:16:50] It's got to be memorable, repeatable, actionable.

[00:16:53] I can give more tools along the way, but I'm trying to give some simple ones.

[00:16:56] Here's a good tool, the relevancy question.

[00:16:59] You're trying to get something across to people.

[00:17:01] You're shifting, you're pivoting a priority, whatever it is.

[00:17:04] You have to answer this or you have to say this statement.

[00:17:08] So what this means to us is, let me just go to pastors right here.

[00:17:13] Oh, you just told this whole message.

[00:17:14] You sounded really smart.

[00:17:15] But make sure you then apply it to me in the pew or to me as a manager or as a person or as an employee.

[00:17:23] You've got to take that message and say, so what that means to you is, and fill that in.

[00:17:29] And you'll just take in that message and make it relevant.

[00:17:32] Let me again, for those of you that are watching online, we'll also show what this is like because you've got so many infographics and diagrams and things of that nature.

[00:17:41] You're even for, and I believe in that first one, we have nine different tools.

[00:17:45] And so you've already given us two of many more.

[00:17:49] But let's keep moving because we talked about clarity.

[00:17:51] The next C is compassion.

[00:17:53] And who is the most trusted person in the world?

[00:17:56] And again, the question is oftentimes answered mom or certainly another trusted individual.

[00:18:03] And that's because not only is clarity important, compassion is very important if you want to be trustworthy.

[00:18:12] You've got to show you care.

[00:18:13] We really, you know, the old adage, nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care.

[00:18:17] But the compassion piece, we trust those that care beyond themselves.

[00:18:21] And exactly what you said, data shows the most trusted person in the world to the most people right now in last year's research was mom.

[00:18:28] There's great dads out there, of course.

[00:18:29] But mom was most trusted partly because of this piece of I'll stay up late, I'll put salve in that ugly wound, I'll sit by you while you're doing that science project.

[00:18:39] We will not or don't want to be accountable to people or follow people if they don't care beyond themselves.

[00:18:45] Of course, the Colossians, clothe yourselves with compassion.

[00:18:48] I mean, this is the you've got to show care.

[00:18:51] There's, you know, several tools in that one.

[00:18:53] One of the quick ones is the laws of compassion.

[00:18:56] Some of the ways in the workplace we show compassion is listen, appreciate, wake up and be present, and serve others selflessly.

[00:19:05] Listen, L, A, appreciate.

[00:19:07] W, wake up, S, serve selflessly.

[00:19:10] So there's so much more to each of those and tools of how do I appreciate.

[00:19:14] There's methods for how do we appreciate sincerely.

[00:19:17] There's W, wake up and be present.

[00:19:18] You want to be different today?

[00:19:20] In our high-tech world, you've got to put the phone upside down or get it off the table.

[00:19:25] Whenever you communicate with someone else, you've got to shut the screen.

[00:19:28] I mean, psychologically, when people wake up to us or are present, everything changes.

[00:19:33] So there's some tools in this book.

[00:19:36] And this is the cool thing about this book compared to some of my other research-based books is it is full of tools you can use tomorrow, three pages, and beautiful infographics and ribbon and all that.

[00:19:43] Like you said, it's like you can use, oh, the spa method.

[00:19:46] Oh, the solving circle.

[00:19:48] Oh, the whatever.

[00:19:49] That's what's really cool for those that are able to see the inside.

[00:19:52] In fact, it was held up recently in a business book event as the most beautiful business book they'd ever seen.

[00:19:57] So I think part of that is just because it's got tabs and you can use it and apply it.

[00:20:02] How do I build trust and conflict?

[00:20:03] Boom, page this.

[00:20:05] But, yes, compassion.

[00:20:07] And, again, I might just, since we're taking a break, come back and just get into some other issues.

[00:20:11] But you did mention the fact that there's tabs.

[00:20:14] It reminds me very much of the tabs we have sometimes in our Bibles.

[00:20:17] But also you take a very good opportunity to apply the principles.

[00:20:21] Because a minute ago we talked about MRA.

[00:20:23] That was memorable, repeatable, and actionable.

[00:20:27] Well, how can you remember the laws of compassion?

[00:20:29] Well, it's L-A-W-S.

[00:20:31] L for listen, A for appreciate, W for wake up, and S for service.

[00:20:36] So, again, you actually have some ways in which you can remember those and they will stay in your head.

[00:20:42] And each one of these sections have various action points.

[00:20:46] So let's take a break.

[00:20:46] And when we come back, we'll work our way through a few of the others.

[00:20:49] Hopefully we'll be able to cover them all.

[00:20:51] But even if we don't, I think you will certainly want to get a copy of this book.

[00:20:54] It is available in your local bookstore.

[00:20:56] It came out in November.

[00:20:57] But we also have information about that as well.

[00:21:00] And if you go to the website, pointofview.net, click on that button that says C-more.

[00:21:05] The first link, of course, will take you to David's website.

[00:21:08] Then we have one that will take you to Trust Edge.

[00:21:11] And that's trustedge.com if you want to find it immediately.

[00:21:14] And then we have one for Trust Matters More Than Ever.

[00:21:18] And that one also will take you to some of the information about the book.

[00:21:22] We've covered two.

[00:21:23] We'll try to cover a few more right after these important messages.

[00:21:31] If you have ever wondered what kind of impact you have when you give to point of view,

[00:21:37] let me introduce you to Bill.

[00:21:40] His story is a perfect illustration.

[00:21:43] Well, I've been a supporter at Point of View since the 70s.

[00:21:47] And I appreciate the fact that truth and love are discussed equally

[00:21:51] and that God's Word never changes.

[00:21:53] We have four generations in my family who have been taught these things,

[00:21:58] these truths.

[00:21:59] And the fifth generation we've just been blessed with,

[00:22:02] who I'm sure will be blessed by this ministry also.

[00:22:05] So I just appreciate the fact that it's solid, it's truthful, it's honest,

[00:22:09] and there's no changing God's Word.

[00:22:12] And that is the kind of multi-generational impact you have when you support Point of View.

[00:22:19] So give today.

[00:22:21] Equip the next generation with the clarity of God's unchanging Word.

[00:22:26] You can give online at pointofview.net

[00:22:31] Or call us at 1-800-347-5151.

[00:22:36] That's pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:22:47] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:57] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:10] And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson.

[00:23:13] Trust matters.

[00:23:14] That's why we're talking about it today with Dr. David Horshager.

[00:23:17] And again, the book is entitled Trust Matters More Than Ever.

[00:23:20] It is a book that came out in November.

[00:23:22] You should be able to find it in your local bookstore.

[00:23:24] But we do have a link to his website, to his personal website.

[00:23:27] Also, some social media and, of course, information about the book as well.

[00:23:31] All available at the website, pointofview.net.

[00:23:34] Of course, you can also go to the Trust Edge, and we have that link as well.

[00:23:38] Let me, if I can now, David, talk about two of the pillars.

[00:23:42] We'll talk about each one individually that I would have guessed.

[00:23:46] When we first started talking about trust and I started thinking about that,

[00:23:50] I would have thought, well, certainly character would be important and competency.

[00:23:54] And character is important because people notice those individuals who do what is right over what is easy.

[00:24:00] They tend to trust people that have good character.

[00:24:03] Tell us more.

[00:24:05] Of course.

[00:24:06] We trust those that are honest.

[00:24:07] We trust those that are, you know, think about this, though.

[00:24:10] So I might trust you, Kirby, because of your character and your compassion.

[00:24:14] We talked about that pillar, to take my kids to the ballgame.

[00:24:17] That doesn't mean I'll trust you to give me a root canal.

[00:24:20] Right?

[00:24:20] And so that's why competency also matters, staying fresh and relevant and capable.

[00:24:26] That's why, you know, even in Scripture, you find it's like, find for yourselves those that are capable,

[00:24:32] those that are trustworthy.

[00:24:33] Like you wanted competent people.

[00:24:35] Nehemiah, the storehouses, and Moses with the, you know, basically over the thousands, hundreds, and tens, and whatever.

[00:24:42] So, yes, we absolutely, I thought character for sure would be everything, probably when I started the grad work.

[00:24:48] And we know that's true.

[00:24:49] We trust people of high character, character that is beyond, that is not just about themselves, it's beyond themselves.

[00:24:54] They have the character to do what's right over what's easy.

[00:24:57] No doubt about it.

[00:24:58] And there's actually some processes.

[00:25:00] The decision-making values is a great process in the book to do with yourself and your family.

[00:25:07] And it's not just coming up with your values in life.

[00:25:09] It's making decision-making values.

[00:25:11] And it's really powerful for making faster, more congruent decisions.

[00:25:15] But, of course, then we learned, yeah, competency also matters.

[00:25:19] We've got to stay fresh, relevant, and capable.

[00:25:20] We've got to stay, we've got to keep learning.

[00:25:22] We've got to, you know, over and over and over, God opposes the proud.

[00:25:27] You know, the proud think they know it already.

[00:25:29] And it's interesting how those that are, the counterforce of competency is arrogance.

[00:25:37] Yes.

[00:25:37] But those that are staying fresh and relevant and capable in their faith, in their work, in their leadership, we tend to trust them.

[00:25:45] One of the things you talk about in terms of character, as you said, when you taught ethics at a university, it was clear that over a wide cultural and religious differences, high character was important.

[00:25:55] You and I share the fact that we both taught on ethics in some cases.

[00:25:59] And what you find is these go beyond just even kind of the types of things that we would think about in Western culture.

[00:26:07] Wherever you go on this planet, there are people that are drawn to individuals with good character.

[00:26:13] And as you just pointed out a minute ago, also that are very competent individuals.

[00:26:17] You put those together, those are two that really guarantee that people are going to trust you and most likely follow you wherever you might be leading them.

[00:26:27] No doubt about it.

[00:26:28] Absolutely.

[00:26:30] Yeah.

[00:26:30] And I think it was called, in ethics, it's called the Magnificent Seven, that we basically, no matter what, agree on these things.

[00:26:37] But yeah, absolutely.

[00:26:39] Absolutely.

[00:26:39] Let's get another one then, because we've been talking about clarity and compassion, character, competency, commitment.

[00:26:46] People believe in those who stand through adversity.

[00:26:49] It's a little bit like the other one.

[00:26:51] Are you going to be doing what is true rather than what is easy?

[00:26:55] But more importantly, what kind of commitment am I going to get from you?

[00:27:00] And that's important, not only, of course, we've been talking a lot about churches, but also what kind of commitment am I going to get if I need that package from Federal Express?

[00:27:11] Are you going to be committed enough?

[00:27:12] Or have I ordered something from Amazon?

[00:27:14] Can I depend on and am I going to assume that you're going to be committed enough to get it to me today when I need it?

[00:27:21] Those are good questions.

[00:27:22] Yeah, totally.

[00:27:23] Absolutely.

[00:27:24] Yeah, we think about this.

[00:27:25] You know, we'll trust someone that will stick with us in the face of adversity.

[00:27:30] You've got a pandemic, but you're going to stay with me?

[00:27:32] I'll trust you.

[00:27:34] You've got this big challenge, but you'll stick with me?

[00:27:36] I'll trust you.

[00:27:37] We don't tend to trust those that aren't committed, and it doesn't matter.

[00:27:40] You know, it's just – by the way, I should give a tool under this one.

[00:27:45] There's a whole 10-step process.

[00:27:46] There's probably people out there have – there's somebody that's made a mistake or would like to rebuild trust.

[00:27:52] I'm not going to go through all 10 steps, but whether you have – are a company with an oil spill or whether you're an individual with a moral failure or whether you've just made a simple mistake,

[00:28:03] I will say this.

[00:28:04] It comes down to, at the end of the 10 steps, it's one – the most important and the only way you ever rebuild trust, regain commitment from others.

[00:28:14] I should – you know, the only way – it's not the apology.

[00:28:19] I'm not saying don't apologize.

[00:28:20] I'm certainly not saying don't be humble, but we hear it all the time.

[00:28:23] I'm sorry I'm late.

[00:28:24] No, you're not.

[00:28:25] You're late every time.

[00:28:26] I'm – the only way we rebuild trust is when we make and keep a new commitment.

[00:28:32] So one of the tips – and, of course, there's a whole process there, 10 steps, but you've got to – if you want to ever rebuild trust,

[00:28:38] and we've all made mistakes, you've got to make and keep a new commitment.

[00:28:40] You'll find also the six-step accountability framework in that pillar and some other really great tools.

[00:28:47] But that's a powerful pillar because we can think about it, those that have stuck with us.

[00:28:51] Even sometimes when we didn't believe in ourselves, we tend to trust them.

[00:28:54] Wow.

[00:28:55] One of the things you mentioned just in passing about Rwanda and that particular section in your book,

[00:29:01] I'm probably going to turn it into a commentary because I've talked about Rwanda before,

[00:29:06] about what has happened with the Hutus and the Tutsis and how trust broke down

[00:29:11] and the erosion of – led to this unbelievable massacre of one million Tutsis that were killed by the Hutus.

[00:29:18] And all that happens, two million Rwandans, refugees, and things of that nature.

[00:29:23] But there's a good example of this issue of commitment, both the loss of trust

[00:29:28] and then the attempt to really try to rebuild that trust.

[00:29:32] Can you speak to that?

[00:29:33] Rwanda put on a master class, and it's the best example of rebuilding of trust in the last 100 years in the world, I think.

[00:29:39] And it's – you know, I know the ambassador there, well, she's a good friend and many others.

[00:29:46] And it's just they did very specific things.

[00:29:50] They really – they made a commitment.

[00:29:52] They stuck with it.

[00:29:53] They, you know, they really – you know, these eight pillars, you see them throughout.

[00:29:59] They increased competency.

[00:30:01] They started training at a very young age, not afraid, you know, not avoiding their history.

[00:30:06] But here is our history and what you need to do about it in the next generation.

[00:30:10] That was hitting on competency.

[00:30:11] They built these support networks.

[00:30:13] They gave away for compassion and grace for those that even killed others.

[00:30:18] I mean, they have to – you know, the nation would have been gone if they would have taken everybody that, you know, did anything wrong.

[00:30:24] So they made a pathway toward compassion and grace if people were remorseful.

[00:30:30] They did so many things.

[00:30:32] And, you know, I gave just a mini story in the book, but it's just amazing to see now there are a shining light in East Africa.

[00:30:39] By the way, with those of us around here that, you know, don't have a lot of hope sometimes or we think we see all this negative news,

[00:30:45] right next to Rwanda – I'm not trying to jump away – but Kenya, we've been there several times, done a lot of work there.

[00:30:51] The Senate Majority Leader of Kenya is TrustEdge certified as well as others that are using this work in the region.

[00:30:59] And that's another story that's really interesting where, you know, President Kenyatta and Raul Odinga, the opposition, nobody thought they would ever come together.

[00:31:10] They were bitter enemies.

[00:31:12] And, you know, I think the first time I had been over the election, there was over 1,000 people dead in the streets.

[00:31:17] The next election, five years later, only five.

[00:31:19] Those aren't valuable.

[00:31:21] Next election, none.

[00:31:22] And you see what happened when Odinga and Kenyatta actually decided we're going to leave a different legacy and stood on stage.

[00:31:30] And now, you know, what's known in the country as not just a handshake but a hug shake.

[00:31:34] They kind of side hugged.

[00:31:35] But it kind of – it wasn't just that time, not that they haven't had struggles, but it wasn't this just kind of for show.

[00:31:44] They did some things.

[00:31:45] And so, you know, I just want to give a little hope here, too, that I've seen pretty amazing things where people have rebuilt trust.

[00:31:51] Some of you are listening thinking, there's no way I could trust that again or that again.

[00:31:55] And, yes, there's a time to just let go.

[00:31:58] But in general, you know, just like Jesus was so redemptive, we can – there's hope.

[00:32:05] And, again, that is the fifth segment there, the fifth pillar on commitment.

[00:32:09] And that is, I think, really important.

[00:32:11] Again, one of the greatest examples in the last 100 years.

[00:32:13] If you're not familiar with that, of course, I might point you to the movie Hotel Rwanda, which gives you a little bit of a feel for that as well.

[00:32:19] Let's take a break because when we come back, we want to pick up a few others.

[00:32:23] But just to give you a sense, if you're taking notes, that we'll be talking about connection.

[00:32:27] And that one sort of fits also to what we were just talking about a minute ago in Rwanda and Kenya.

[00:32:32] We could also, of course, talk about South Africa, contribution and consistency.

[00:32:36] All part of this book, which I would highly recommend, Trust Matters.

[00:32:39] And if you'd like to know more about the Trust Edge, we have information about Dr. David Horswager as well as, of course, the Trust Edge material.

[00:32:48] We have both his link to Facebook and to X or Twitter as well as the website.

[00:32:53] And if you would like to have him come and speak, perhaps on this issue, bring him in to do consulting with your company or your ministry, that would certainly be another thing that you could consider doing.

[00:33:04] And that is easy to find by simply going to the website pointofview.net.

[00:33:09] So, again, if you've been kind of taking some notes, we've talked about clarity and compassion, character, competency and commitment.

[00:33:17] We'll come back in just a minute and talk about connection, contribution and consistency.

[00:33:22] And, of course, we're covering it very quickly.

[00:33:24] That's one of the reasons we encourage you to get the book, because those 280 pages are chock full of great information, well illustrated.

[00:33:32] As he said, many people have called it perhaps the most beautiful business book you'll ever read.

[00:33:37] And I think we'll come back and try to finish those off right after these important messages.

[00:33:55] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:34:01] Trust Matters more than ever.

[00:34:03] And, again, we're talking with Dr. David Horswager for just a few more minutes.

[00:34:06] And two that come together, David, are the idea of connection and contribution.

[00:34:13] Connection, certainly people are looking for connections to foster trust and everything,

[00:34:18] and where you can also work together and connect and collaborate.

[00:34:22] And then contribution, when a leader is contributing, it really encourages people to reciprocate.

[00:34:28] And so those two really sort of come together, don't they?

[00:34:31] They do.

[00:34:33] Connection, you know, what we found is basically people trust those that are willing

[00:34:35] to connect and collaborate with others.

[00:34:37] So if you're just going to be on an island, you're going to do it yourself.

[00:34:40] It's interesting.

[00:34:40] There's organizations that actually de-incentivize connection.

[00:34:43] Like they say, hey, you use this budget right now.

[00:34:47] Use it this year, or you're not going to get a budget next year.

[00:34:50] Don't think about everybody else.

[00:34:51] Don't think about the other ministries.

[00:34:53] Don't think about marketing.

[00:34:54] Think about yourself and just use that up, because otherwise you're not going to get it

[00:34:58] next year.

[00:34:58] And they just de-incentivize the value of the whole, the mission, the connection and

[00:35:02] collaboration with others.

[00:35:03] So absolutely, our willingness to connect and collaborate.

[00:35:06] By the way, I can go into a company or a city or an organization, and we can, without putting

[00:35:11] another dime in an organization, increase connection just a little bit, and you'll get higher trust,

[00:35:18] which leads to better results.

[00:35:19] You'll lower costs and a host of other things.

[00:35:22] So connection is powerful.

[00:35:24] There's ways to do it.

[00:35:25] You know, I'll give some of the tools in there for how do you build connection?

[00:35:28] The most magnetic trait in the world is in there, which is, some people might think, oh,

[00:35:34] it's smile, or it's this or that.

[00:35:36] It's actually gratitude.

[00:35:37] People trust those, or they connect with those that are willing to be, that are grateful.

[00:35:41] And grateful people, and a lot of the negatives go away.

[00:35:43] They don't tend to be, you know, they don't tend to be, you know, entitled, and they don't

[00:35:49] tend to be complainers.

[00:35:50] And it's a very magnetic trait.

[00:35:52] So the contribution, the really big word out of that one, as far as the research funnel goes,

[00:35:58] is results.

[00:35:59] You've got to contribute results.

[00:36:00] Yes.

[00:36:01] You can't just have compassion character.

[00:36:03] You've got to deliver the results I expected or asked for.

[00:36:06] So I go in for surgery, and, you know, it's a compassionate surgeon, but cuts off the wrong

[00:36:11] leg in amputation.

[00:36:12] We've got a problem, right?

[00:36:12] We've got to deliver the right result.

[00:36:15] And that's the same with all of us.

[00:36:16] We make promises.

[00:36:18] We say we're going to do this in business, or in church, or in life, or as a husband or

[00:36:22] wife.

[00:36:22] We have to, you know, we aren't trusted when we don't deliver results on that.

[00:36:27] I love your six E's of motivation, too.

[00:36:29] Example, expectation, education, encourage, empower, extend trust.

[00:36:34] A lot of these are going to be very easy for me to remember, simply because you put them

[00:36:38] in a much more memorable way, because it, I think, is important to recognize, and I

[00:36:42] will just come back for just a second one of the things I thought was very helpful, or

[00:36:46] those magnetic traits, and the issue of gratitude.

[00:36:48] How many times, especially in the scriptures, are we encouraged to have gratitude?

[00:36:53] And you go into Romans 1.

[00:36:54] It talks about those who were not thankful and did not have gratitude.

[00:36:58] So, in some respects, what you mentioned just a minute ago was important.

[00:37:02] But I thought we'd also get to the eighth pillar, which is consistency.

[00:37:06] People are wired to identify patterns and predict behaviors.

[00:37:11] And if you're unpredictable, that sometimes can short-circus things like clarity and competency

[00:37:18] and all the rest.

[00:37:19] But if you are making it very obvious of what you're going to do and then fulfill what you

[00:37:25] plan to do, I think people are going to have a great deal of trust in what you do.

[00:37:30] No doubt about it.

[00:37:31] You know, I trust based on consistency.

[00:37:33] This pillar just hits on all the others.

[00:37:35] But you might not even like something and you still trust it.

[00:37:39] But like, I've had the exact same burger on McDonald's burger on six different continents.

[00:37:47] Right?

[00:37:48] That pickles off-centered everywhere I go.

[00:37:50] But you know, that same, like they are trusted because of sameness.

[00:37:53] The way you show up, do you show up this way every time you come to the meeting?

[00:37:58] Do you show up prepared?

[00:37:59] Do you show up kind?

[00:38:01] Or do you gossip sometimes?

[00:38:02] Oh, you're going to do that.

[00:38:03] The consistency is what you do.

[00:38:05] The only way to build a reputation as a human being is consistent behavior.

[00:38:10] The only way to build a brand as a church, organization, or company is consistency.

[00:38:14] The look, the feel, the sameness when I come together.

[00:38:18] So consistency is trusted.

[00:38:19] And you made a mention of like how does this affect clarity?

[00:38:22] We have people, oh, clarity.

[00:38:23] I've got that clarity one down.

[00:38:25] I shared clarity, a clear vision at our annual meeting.

[00:38:29] Well, you just lost if you're not sharing that message at least every 14 days in your organization.

[00:38:36] So because you don't have consistency, nobody has clarity.

[00:38:40] You have to add consistency to that to get clarity.

[00:38:43] You can say, well, compassion.

[00:38:45] I told my wife I loved her 30 years ago.

[00:38:47] You might need to say it a few more times.

[00:38:50] So consistency, I mean, we say in our organization, atrophy is guaranteed without intentional consistent action.

[00:38:57] Your body is atrophying if you don't put healthy food in it.

[00:39:00] Your mind is atrophying if you don't put healthy content in it.

[00:39:04] Your faith atrophies if you don't put the spiritual disciplines in it.

[00:39:09] And your marriage atrophies, your relationships, your company, everything atrophies unless you're consistently putting the right trust building and the right things in it.

[00:39:19] Again, atrophy is due to entropy.

[00:39:21] So those two go together.

[00:39:22] But one of the things I wanted to mention just before we wind down here is, again, people can use this book.

[00:39:27] But in the back, you even have questions where, well, I need to stay relevant or my meetings aren't effective or I need to ask better questions or whatever it might be.

[00:39:37] And each one of those then points you back to one of those trust tools.

[00:39:41] So you can start at the beginning of the book and read through.

[00:39:44] Or you can go to the back of the book first and find what you might need.

[00:39:48] So either way, there's a way in which you can use this book.

[00:39:51] But give us any more hints or helps because now that the book is out, you know how people could best use this book in their research and in their own lives.

[00:39:59] Yeah, it's so applicable.

[00:40:01] We hear it all the time.

[00:40:02] We've had people using it.

[00:40:03] I like what you brought up there on page 274, 275.

[00:40:07] It just says, hey, I've got conflict.

[00:40:09] Like, we all have conflict.

[00:40:11] How do I build trust even in the midst of conflict?

[00:40:14] You go back to the page and you learn the pause method for increasing trust in conflict.

[00:40:18] I need to make better decisions faster.

[00:40:20] Page 100, decision-making values.

[00:40:22] I need to stay relevant.

[00:40:24] Page 122, it's input-output.

[00:40:26] It comes under the pillars.

[00:40:27] I want to cascade trust or I want to have better accountability, the six-step accountability framework, ten steps to rebuild trust.

[00:40:37] It's really so usable.

[00:40:39] It's what our – these 40 tools, trust tools, are what our certified partners use on six continents to, you know, cascade this trust work and solve really big problems around the world.

[00:40:50] So that's – you can go from the front and you can also go from the back and solve something very specifically.

[00:40:57] And just like tools in the garden, you might use the whole a little more.

[00:40:59] I might use this tool a little bit more.

[00:41:00] I'll point out a tool that changed my life.

[00:41:02] It's the how-how-how method.

[00:41:04] It's in the clarity pillar.

[00:41:05] We've had people say that tripled their marriage.

[00:41:07] I had the second biggest healthcare organization in the world say that changed their company.

[00:41:12] But that is the tool.

[00:41:13] And people ask me, how did I lose 52 pounds in five months in 2011 and keep it off now for over a decade?

[00:41:18] It was not a fitness tool.

[00:41:20] It was that clarity tool that actually helped me live differently and find hope and take action on some things because I got so clear about some things that I could do.

[00:41:31] So that how-how method, I just would point that out.

[00:41:33] We don't have time to really teach it.

[00:41:35] That one takes a few minutes, but it's such a powerful tool.

[00:41:38] And so, yeah, I'm proud of the book.

[00:41:44] I just want to say not to myself, but to the designer.

[00:41:47] They just got it right.

[00:41:49] And if the content was terrible, at least, boy, that design is really beautiful.

[00:41:53] But the content has been backed up and used, and I'm really, really grateful for anybody else.

[00:41:59] But tell me what you think.

[00:42:00] Anybody has questions, we have so many resources.

[00:42:02] We give so many resources away for free.

[00:42:05] A couple hundred videos online.

[00:42:06] There's a discussion guide if you want to do this in a discussion way.

[00:42:10] I haven't printed it yet, but we have the biblical references that go with it, too.

[00:42:15] But you can have a little study around it.

[00:42:18] But this is, you know, anyway, there's lots of assets at the websites you've recommended as well.

[00:42:23] Again, trustedge.com is one of those.

[00:42:26] Of course, we have a link as well to David's website and also for the book.

[00:42:30] So, David, thank you for your enthusiasm.

[00:42:32] Thank you for writing the book.

[00:42:34] And thank you for giving us an entire hour today to talk about it.

[00:42:37] Kirby, I so appreciate you.

[00:42:38] Keep sharing the truth and keep staying trusted and trustworthy.

[00:42:42] Appreciate it.

[00:42:43] We're going to take a break.

[00:42:44] And when we come back, we're going to be talking about Angel Tree.

[00:42:46] But let me mention real quickly that yesterday you heard us, of course, talk about our trip to Greece.

[00:42:52] And I thought I'd mention that again.

[00:42:53] I know of one or two people that said they wanted to get a brochure.

[00:42:57] We'd be glad to get that to you.

[00:42:58] And you might be looking in your inbox because I sent out an email today about how Point of View can really help you.

[00:43:06] And we'll talk more about that in the next hour.

[00:43:08] All that coming up right after this.

[00:43:11] The Bible tells us not to worry.

[00:43:14] And yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today.

[00:43:19] Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry.

[00:43:24] God gives us a next step.

[00:43:26] He says we need to pray.

[00:43:28] But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult.

[00:43:33] And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement,

[00:43:38] a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation.

[00:43:43] Each week you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans,

[00:43:49] along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others.

[00:43:53] We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand.

[00:44:02] Will you commit to Pray for America?

[00:44:05] Go to pointofview.net.

[00:44:08] Click on the Pray for America banner at the top of the page to subscribe.

[00:44:13] Again, that's pointofview.net.

[00:44:17] Click on the Pray for America banner.

[00:44:21] Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America.

[00:44:27] Point of View will continue after this.