Point of View August 3, 2026 – Hour 2 : Life After Life

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View. And now, Liberty McCartney.

[00:00:20] All right, we're back for the second hour of Point of View today. Thanks for staying with me. Just had a wonderful conversation wrap up with Daniel Darling. So go back and listen to that if you haven't had a chance. It was that you can find it at pointofview.net. Don't forget, Point of View offers so many resources, so many ways for you to follow all the great things that we are discussing, always from a biblical worldview, multiple podcasts,

[00:00:42] including the Point of View Radio Talk Show podcast, which releases every day after the show in hour increments so that if you missed half of the show or you want to go back and listen to an interview or share it with somebody that you think would really appreciate it, you can do that. So just anywhere you get your podcasts, like Apple, for instance, you can go to Point of View Radio Talk Show and you can look up Apple Podcasts. Also, Know Why Podcasts is what I host and we talk about a lot of things that are especially relevant to the younger generation. Of course, all are welcome to listen.

[00:01:11] And that comes out on Wednesdays. And so maybe a little bit later today or tomorrow, I'll give you a preview of what's coming out this Wednesday on the Know Why Podcast. And you can always listen to highlights, too. Megan puts that together for us. The best interviews, our most popular topics that we cover are always re-released as a highlights episode, kind of condensed down to an easy listen for you. So anyway, visit pointofview.net. If you haven't, we've updated our website recently, by the way. So if you haven't had a chance to go and check that out, it'd be a great thing to do. A little bit later in the show today,

[00:01:41] I'll be talking with Pastor Philip DeCoursey on a book that he has written Life After Life, exploring the Bible's wonderful promises about heaven and eternity. Came out in February of this year. Really excited about that because let's be honest, if you're a Christian like I am, and I think many of you who listen to Point of View are, we are confident about where we're going. And that does give us hope.

[00:02:04] But when we stop to think about where we're going and wait, what is that going to be like? Should that affect how we live our lives here on earth? Why does it even matter to understand what the Bible teaches about heaven? I think Pastor Philip lays out some great arguments and helps explain a lot of that and answer some of those questions. But before we get him on the line, let's just go ahead and cover a little bit more news.

[00:02:26] I opened the show talking about a case out of California where the state of California is actually trying to make it illegal for pro-life nonprofits to even tell women that there is such a thing as an abortion pill reversal. If they win this case, doctors will technically still be able to prescribe the abortion pill reversal, but pro-life organizations won't be allowed to talk about them.

[00:02:51] I'm looking forward to revisiting that topic on Friday whenever I have Dr. Matthews and Aaron Smith in studio with me and get their perspectives on the legal ramifications of that. But there is another pro-life topic that is a little bit different that I did want to bring your attention to. This is from World Magazine published by Josh Wood. And really, well, the headline here, hijacking the adoption argument.

[00:03:17] When we are talking about pro-life issues, of course, usually we think immediately about abortion and trying to save unborn lives. And that is preeminent in the pro-life movement. But a pro-life ethic applies to so many different areas. And in today's age, we are really getting an opportunity. Let's frame it that way to apply a consistent life ethic to so many different issues. And this is one that we don't talk about a whole lot. And I think that we do need to talk about it.

[00:03:46] And that is surrogacy. Now, let's be really clear. Adoption is a wonderful, beautiful thing. It is something that mirrors what we get to experience when we come into God's family. He adopts us into his family. And so there is a need for adoption. That is a very pro-life ministry to take on as a family or for churches to support adoptive families and parents.

[00:04:12] But there is some twisting happening where now we have surrogacy or we've had it, which is where somebody basically, really what it is, it's renting a womb. It is renting another woman's body, paying another woman to carry a child and give birth to it so that another set of parents or another person can raise that child.

[00:04:35] And there is legally a lot of saints that allow this try to twist the language. So to make it seem like it's like adoption, but it's fundamentally not. And this is an area where Christians need to speak out. And maybe it's an uncomfortable area because it's kind of becoming normalized in our society.

[00:04:58] You probably aren't aware of the fact that around the world, most countries either ban or severely restrict surrogacy because it is seen as what it is, which is such a ripe opportunity for women to really be victimized and taken advantage of. So the conditions are not great in the United States. It is very lax. And so here's what happened.

[00:05:27] I guess Florida is trying to outlaw surrogacy. And Slate, which is a very left-leaning publication, ran a piece saying that if Florida outlaws surrogacy, adoption could be next. And this is the kind of rhetoric that we have to fight back against because people who are pro-adoption, as we all should be, might get scared and say, well, no, then we need to protect surrogacy as well. But it is fundamentally different. And this article does such a great job of explaining it. Josh Wood talks about this.

[00:05:56] And that adoption addresses a pre-existing wound, a separation that has happened between a child and their biological parents for whatever reason, whether that be death or the parent's inability to take care of the child. And so then adoption is a loving remedy.

[00:06:16] Adoptive parents, and if you're an adoptive parent, you know, there are months, often years long processes to vet adoptive families, to do background checks, to ensure that the child is going into a safe environment. It is usually, especially like with foster care examples, if the biological parents, if neither of them are able to parent the child, then they look for relatives first. They prioritize keeping siblings together.

[00:06:43] It's a very careful process that is done in the best interest of the child to try to preserve that child's rights. Surrogacy is fundamentally different because instead of responding to a wound, it actually creates the wound. It creates the separation. So this is something that I think a lot of people don't think of. Surrogacy prides the three roles of motherhood apart and sells them as separate services.

[00:07:12] The genetic mother provides the egg. The birth mother gestates the baby. And the social mother, if there is one, raises the child. There are so many examples of the lax surrogacy laws in the United States leading to some very shocking abuses. For instance, there was a case in, I believe it was in California, where a family brought, it was actually a Chinese client,

[00:07:40] used surrogacy to bring as many as 21 babies into a California household where police found them living in a mansion with nannies under documented abuse. This would not have happened with an adoption agency. There are other examples of a sex offender bringing home a baby through surrogacy because there is no check required in the interest of the child, only a contract.

[00:08:03] It makes procreation into just another contractual commodity where you can essentially buy the use of a woman's body to carry a child and then purchase that child. This is the reality of surrogacy. It's what we need to talk about as Christians. And it is not the same as adoption. So if a state like Florida, which I think is a great move, makes a move to restrict or outlaw this practice so that women aren't victimized and children aren't victimized because of it, that is a good thing.

[00:08:32] It will not threaten and it should not threaten legitimate adoption laws and policies because that is a good thing that Christians should be in favor of. Well, we're about to go to a break. And so we'll be right back with an interview with Pastor Philip DeCourcy. Stay with us here on Point of View.

[00:08:47] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:48] The list of free things is mind-boggling. This includes universal health care at no cost to individuals, along with all medical education and training and paid family leave and education from pre-K to college. As I often say on radio, if you think health care is expensive now, just imagine how expensive it will be when it's free.

[00:10:11] Democratic Socialists will demilitarize police departments and redirect funding as steps towards abolishing the police and prison system. The platform also calls for abolishing all borders and giving amnesty to anyone in this country illegally. It would also defund the Department of War. The Constitution is also on the chopping block since they want to abolish the Senate and the Electoral College and replace the President and Supreme Court with a new structure. Most Americans would be shocked to read the DSA platform. Check it out for yourself.

[00:10:41] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my Point of View. Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:06] You know, my little kids often ask me about heaven or questions about what that's going to be like. My son says something funny. He's like, I can't even imagine what it's like to live forever or something like that. And the truth is, neither can I. And I think a lot of us have a hard time imagining the afterlife, imagining God's promise of heaven to us. And so what we do is we tend to live as if it's a fantasy and not a reality.

[00:11:32] But we want to talk about it because it is something the Bible talks about, and it should be something that we look forward to and something that we have solid theology on. So joining us right now by phone to talk about this is Pastor Philip DeCoursey, how Christians can think and live with a biblical worldview when it comes to heaven. So, Pastor Philip, thank you so much for joining us on Point of View today. I have a liberty. It's a joy to join you. Thankful for the ministry. Thankful for Kirby. I have several of his books in my library and have benefited from his insights.

[00:12:02] Oh, wonderful. That is so great to hear, and it's just great to be able to talk with you. So I'll introduce you to our listeners for a moment. Pastor Philip is the senior pastor of Kindred Community Church in Anaheim Hills, California, and teacher on the daily media program Know the Truth. Pastor Philip was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and moved to the United States in 1994 and has pastored at Kindred Community Church since 2007. And he's heard on more than 600 radio stations around the United States as well as online.

[00:12:30] So thankful for his voice and perspective. And I want to talk to you, of course, about your latest book, Life After Life, exploring the Bible's wonderful promises about heaven and eternity. And I think what's interesting is that, and you cite this study in your book as well, according to Pew Research Center, the majority of Americans actually believe in heaven or some version of the afterlife.

[00:12:52] But when you get more specific than that in regards to what's heaven like or who gets to go there, there's not really very much of a consensus. So why do you think that is that we have this perception of an afterlife, even if we don't really have very many specific beliefs about it? Yeah, I mean, look, I think the general public have an idea or a wish, right, that there's something beyond this life, maybe a better version, you know.

[00:13:21] And yet they don't have an idea because they're not biblically defined or biblically driven. But, you know, it starts with, look, I think Ecclesiastes 3 talks about this. And ancient and modern civilizations bear this out, that God has put eternity in the heart of man.

[00:13:44] It's innate to the human experience and outlook that there's a desire for something beyond this life. We realize there are aches and empty spaces in our hearts that this world hasn't satisfied.

[00:14:01] And C.S. Lewis talks about that, that that in itself kind of promises and points to an experience that we're yet to have because life is marked by futility. And I talk about that in the book. You know, as believers, we've got God's word to us. You know, 25% of the Bible is prophetic. God pulls the curtain back on the future and the life to come.

[00:14:31] Think about even the last book in the Bible is called A Revelation of Jesus Christ, an apocalypsis, an unveiling of Christ, the last days, and his coming kingdom. And so we've got God's word to us. We don't whistle in the dark. We don't imagine. You know, God has revealed himself. Eye hasn't seen, ear hasn't heard, neither has it entered into the heart of man. Liberty, what God has prepared for them, for the child of God.

[00:15:00] But we stop there. The next verse is, but the Spirit of God has revealed these things. We've got God's witness within us. The Spirit of God indwells the believer. And according to the book of Ephesians, he's a down payment. The Greek word carries even the idea of an inheritance or an engagement ring. And the Spirit of God causes us to cry, Abba, Father.

[00:15:29] Causes us to look heavenward. Would remind us that, you know, we're saved from the penalty of sin. We're being saved from the power of sin. But someday we will be received from the very presence of sin itself. And in the world around us, I kind of touched on that. There's an old James Bond movie, The World Is Not Enough.

[00:15:51] I think as we live in this world, we realize even with the heights of joys that sometimes it offers, there's a vacancy. There's a vanity, says Solomon and Ecclesiastes, to this life that only a more perfect experience beyond this life will fulfill.

[00:16:12] So certainly the world innately, you know, even ancient civilizations, there was always a sense of afterlife, the journey across the river of death into some, you know, better experience. But as believers, ours is a defined theology because the Bible gives us plenty to think about. I love that. And, yes, that is such a good point, too, that I appreciated in your book looking at how this is innate.

[00:16:42] It's an innate desire in our hearts. And we can see that through all these different cultures throughout history and traditions and beliefs. And yet the Bible gives us answers. And yet people and sometimes we just don't really dig into that and take advantage of it. But before we get into some of those specifics, before we go to our next break, I love how you frame this in Chapter 1 of your book, which is, you know, we can focus on, all right, what's it going to be like then and all of that.

[00:17:09] But how should anticipating heaven actually affect our day-to-day life right now? Yeah, I love that question. I mean, it isn't something we're meant to put off. Philippians 321 calls us citizens of heaven. And there's, you know, Philippi was a Roman colony about 800 miles from Rome.

[00:17:32] And if you lived in Philippi, the Roman laws, Roman architecture, Roman entertainment, Roman dress governed life there. And it was kind of an outpost of Rome. And the church is an outpost of heaven. It's an outpost of God's kingdom. And we are those who have been born from above. And ultimately, we will live life with the God who is above and who will bring down his kingdom to earth. So there's that.

[00:18:00] Colossians 3 talks about how set your affection on things above, not on things below. We get caught up in what we can see, taste, smell, and touch. But the Bible said, hold on a minute. Heaven's not just a destination. Heaven's an orientation of the heart. It's the Christian's north star. And it's very practical liberty. I mean, in the sermon in mind, we just preached it at our church.

[00:18:28] You know, Jesus talks about lay up treasure in heaven. We've got to think about finance in the light of eternity. He talks about praying for the kingdom of come. Our prayers have got to be shaped by eternity in heaven. And Paul says in Romans 8, 18, this present suffering is nothing to be compared to the glory that awaits. We've got back to the sermon in the mind. When we're persecuted, we're to do that gladly because great will our reward be in heaven.

[00:18:57] I could give other examples, but what's the point? Heaven keeps life on earth. Heaven gives the Christian motivation for discipleship, costly sacrifice. Heaven helps us deal with persecution, death, and suffering. I think in that chapter, Liberty, I quote an old Puritan or what it was said of a Puritan called Richard Sibbes. And I want this to be said of you, me, and our listeners today on Point of View.

[00:19:22] Someone said of him, heaven was in him before he was in heaven. And that's what the first chapter is about. I think I entitled it Heaven Can't Wait. It's not something we stuff in the back of our pocket. It's not something that stays in some drawer at the back of our mind. For the New Testament Christian, they thought about heaven a lot. In fact, C.S. Lewis's famous quote is, those who thought most about the next life did most in this life.

[00:19:51] And so we better get serious about heaven if we're going to be good disciples, good evangelists, good apologists for Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah, so good. I love that. And one of the other things that you say that I think this is great, you open up the chapter talking about decorating for Christmas and bringing the Christmas tree down after Thanksgiving. And when we are anticipating Christmas morning, especially as kids, it can seem like such a long season of anticipation.

[00:20:21] But when we think about heaven that way, it's a season-shaping reality, a perspective that pervades our consciousness on a daily basis. Those are your words from the chapter. And as you said, it will affect our habits regarding everything from how we pray to how we manage our money, how we mourn our loved ones, how we persevere. So, so much good stuff for us to consider even now. And it reminds me of, of course, how Jesus taught us how to pray. Your kingdom come and will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

[00:20:50] So we're about to... Yeah, we're citizens of heaven. We're not citizens of earth trying to get to heaven. We're citizens of heaven passing through this world. I mean, I'm a proud United States citizen now. But for a period of time, I had what was known as a status quo resident alien. And in a sense, there was my heart still lay back home and my citizenship was with Britain. And then I kind of ditched all that.

[00:21:19] But a Christian is a resident alien on the earth. Absolutely. We're about to go to a break, Pastor Philip. But when we get back, let's keep talking about how our citizenship is in heaven and what that actually means. We'll be right back. In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle, not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas.

[00:21:42] London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism, and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon. London was in many ways the center of the world, economically, militarily, and intellectually. Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports. Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers. Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth.

[00:22:10] It is truth for all of life. Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today? Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox when you sign up for the Viewpoints Commentary at pointofview.net slash signup. Every weekday in less than two minutes, you'll learn how to be a person of light to stand against darkness in our time.

[00:22:37] It's free, so visit pointofview.net slash signup right now. pointofview.net slash signup. Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:04] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again is Liberty McCarter. All right, we're back still talking with Pastor Philip DeCourcy on his book, Life After Life. We're trying to understand heaven from a biblical perspective. And Pastor Philip, as you said, God lays out the details in the Bible. He gives us so many answers.

[00:23:30] And you were saying something really interesting before the break, which is really understanding heaven in terms of citizenship. And you were using the example of when you moved to the United States and kind of citizenship versus residency. So continue that analogy for us. Yeah, I mean, it's an analogy we find in the Bible. In 1 Peter, as an example, he talks about pilgrims and strangers.

[00:23:53] And, you know, it's drawing upon the language of the Psalms and the journey that, you know, the saints of God have undertaken. And we're on a pilgrimage. Ours isn't to the physical Jerusalem. Ours is to a spiritual Jerusalem, a new Jerusalem. Talked about in Revelation 21-22. But it's a great analogy. And, look, there's a balanced liberty.

[00:24:21] I don't find anywhere where an engagement with eschatology, an engagement with the doctrine of heaven, the afterlife, detaches us from this life. In fact, if anything, it roots us. It drives us. With the judgment seat of Christ, which I'm talking about in the book, our accountability of God, our eternal rewards,

[00:24:43] all of that kind of overhanging us drives us to live life with a passion and on purpose. At the same time, you know, there's aspects of life. Certainly the church in the world that hates Christ and a culture that's rejecting God's glory and God's wisdom. That can be hard and it can be difficult.

[00:25:09] And church history is marked by martyrdom, persecution. First Peter talks about, you know, being ostracized by society, being pushed out to the margins. And while he doesn't say retreat, he doesn't say, you know, give up. In fact, he tells them to stand strong in the grace of God, chapter 5, verse 12. Nevertheless, he helps them understand their context. You are a resident alien.

[00:25:36] You are an outpost of the kingdom of God. And therefore, expect pushback. Expect pressure. But just know that and know that you're on a journey or you're on a pilgrimage that ends, you know, in Jesus' presence. It ends in victory. It ends in a world absent of Satan and sin and the enemies of the gospel. So it's a great metaphor, one of the many metaphors, right, the New Testament uses of the Christian.

[00:26:06] And we've got to keep that mindset. One little story I think I tell somewhere in the book about Martin Luther King during the days of segregation. And he talks about every time you get on the buses in the south when, you know, it was white people to the front and black people to the back. As he moved physically towards the back of the bus, he talked about he left his mind on the front seat.

[00:26:33] And he longed for the day when his body would catch up with his mind and things would change and someday he would be treated equally. And I love that. And that's the Colossians. That's 1 Peter. We set our affection on things above our bodies on the earth. And someday as we remain faithful to Jesus, we're going to catch up with this glorious vision and live it. Yeah. Yeah. So good. I love that.

[00:27:02] And that really grounds us in why it is important to care about this and think about this now and make sure that our theology of heaven is sound. So let's talk about the nitty gritty a little bit. Or maybe that's not the right term to apply here. But what happens because there are different aspects of eternity and different periods and different states.

[00:27:25] So in chapter 2, during the interval, the title of the chapter, you talk about our immediate state, our intermediate state, and our immortal state. And so that might be why people get a little confused or have these different ideas of what heaven is like when really maybe all are true in a different way or at different times. So situate us there a little bit and help us understand that. Yeah. That chapter deals with the question, where are our dead loved ones now? What are they experiencing? What are they going through?

[00:27:55] That's one of the motives from writing this book was, you know, I'm a pastor. And I deal with bereavement. I deal with hurting families. And I want to bring the sufficiency and authority and clarity and perspicuity of Scripture. And so that chapter is right now. I'm writing the book in my body on earth. But what about my mother who went to be with the Lord a couple of years ago?

[00:28:21] So it's based on 2 Corinthians 5, verses 1 to 8. And Paul talks about our bodies. And he kind of uses the analogy of our body kind of clothing our spirit. We're bipartite. We're two parts. We're soul and spirit. Our soul and body, our spirit and body. So he talks about you're clothed. So that's right now. Liberty, you and I, Paul, would say we're clothed. We're on this life.

[00:28:51] We're at this moment clothed by our present bodies that we inherited from birth. But that body is perishable. That body is subject to death. And someday we will die if Jesus doesn't return. And Paul writes both to the Thessalonians and the Corinthians about the believers who died. And he calls them the unclothed, as in we bury the body. But the spirit goes to be with the Lord. I know Kirby's probably talked about this. But we don't believe in soul sleep. We don't believe in purgatory.

[00:29:21] We believe that it's absent from the body and present with the Lord. That's 2 Corinthians 5. When Oswald Chambers died, a telegram went out to those who knew him. And it simply said, in his presence. Speaking of the presence of Christ. And so our loved ones, my mother is before the Lord in a perfect state. But she's in a spiritual state. She's no body.

[00:29:46] She'll receive that when Jesus returns at the rapture, at the coming for his church. John 14, 1 Thessalonians 4, and 1 Corinthians 15. And then she'll be further clothed when she receives a new body, which is a whole different chapter in the book. When we receive a new body like unto the Lord Jesus. So I just wonder, people, I realize we're short and tense, so I'll stop there. There are three states.

[00:30:15] Right now, there's the immediate state. That's the living are in their bodies. But someday they will die if Jesus doesn't return. And the spirit will separate from the body. The body will be buried. That spirit will go to be with the Lord in an unclothed state, without a body, although perfect and happy. Waiting for the day of resurrection when it will be further clothed. So our loved ones right now who perished before Jesus returned, who fell asleep in Jesus.

[00:30:45] They're before him in a state of perfection. They're praising the Lord. They're praying for his kingdom to come. And they're watching the Lord put all his enemies under his feet. Yes, and that gives us so much hope and comfort when we think about that. We've got a couple minutes, and so I just wanted to mention before the break, and then we'll come back and have a chance to talk more.

[00:31:09] But I really did appreciate your treatment of the reality of our future physical bodies. And I think, as you mentioned, a lot of times kind of Gnosticism gets mixed in with Christian theology if we aren't careful.

[00:31:23] Where because we live in a broken world now where there is sin and we see the effects of it and aging and death and sickness and things like that, then we tend to kind of correlate all materialness and embodiment with sin or being lesser than. But in just a minute or so before we go to the next break, Pastor Philip, embodiment is good.

[00:31:46] And thinking about our future perfect body to come actually kind of changes the way that I think about the material world and the goodness of God's creation now. Yeah, it's a very important doctrine that our future state will be physical. Right now in the interval, some believers are unclothed or without a body. That's going to be fixed.

[00:32:11] And our eternal state is in a physical body on a new earth and a new heaven, which is physical. C.S. Lewis said that Christianity is the most materialistic of all the world religions. Many religions are about escaping the body. Many religions are about escaping the earth. But that is not a Christian doctrine. And someday we will be in a new body. And I talk about that in the chapter of the new you. It will be physical.

[00:32:40] It will be personal. People will recognize me as they once saw me. It will be permanent. It will be perfect. It will be like the Lord Jesus' body. He had the power to suspend time and space and travel. It will be a spiritual body, says Paul. That doesn't mean it won't be without a physical form. It means that my heart will be so in alignment. I love this thought, Liberty. My heart will be so in alignment with the will of God, the glory of God. I will no longer fight to be righteous.

[00:33:10] It's one of the things I'm looking forward to most. And I talk about this in the beginning of the chapter, and I'll stop here. When you go to an old school reunion or something, and you see someone 10, 20, 30 years on, and they've kind of changed, and you go to yourself, they're a shadow of their former selves. Yeah. And we have a future to look forward to where it's the opposite. So hopeful.

[00:33:37] We have more to talk about when we get back with Pastor Philip, including are we going to be bored in heaven? Let's talk about that and a few other questions. Stay with us here on Point of View. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back for a few more minutes with Pastor Philip DeCourcy.

[00:34:05] We're talking about his book, Life After Life, Exploring the Bible's Wonderful Promises About Heaven. It was published earlier this year. You can go to pointofview.net and click on links to be able to get a copy of that book for yourself, and I highly recommend that you do. But in the few minutes that we have left, let's try to answer a few more questions. And, Pastor Philip, one of the things you address throughout your book is this misconception in our culture about how fun, really, heaven is going to be.

[00:34:33] And you cite these examples from celebrities, including author Mark Twain, on saying, like, I'd rather, you know, have the company of hell or something like that. I think that's a paraphrase. But basically, like, you know, how much can you do playing harps and sitting around on clouds? And, of course, that's not accurate. And I think most Christians who know the Bible know that that's not accurate, but that's kind of the perception.

[00:34:57] And so even if we know that there is more to it than that, it really does help to dig into what the Bible says about what we'll actually be doing when we get to heaven, when we are with the Lord. So talk us through some of those things. Yeah, I mean, look, our doctrine of heaven has suffered from false advertisement. And there's so many caricatures out there that would put me off, let alone Mark Twain.

[00:35:21] In fact, I think his quote was, given that idea of this kind of bodiless, you know, never-ending worship service, he says, you know, heaven sounds like hell to me.

[00:35:33] But it's so far removed from this glorious picture that the Bible says before is of a new heaven and a new earth, a material world, Eden restored, kind of earth and heaven point, you know, point two. And we go back to where we jumped off in the original plan and we begin to exercise dominion over the earth.

[00:36:00] We'll be in a new body that will be more glorious than our present body, like the Lord Jesus' resurrection body. And in one of the chapters I deal with this whole thought, and I call it plenty to do. Heaven's going to be anything but boring, anything but repetitive. And I talk about several things. I talk about the fact that we'll rest from our labor. And I think that word rest means like God rested on the seventh day.

[00:36:28] It's not that he, it's that he looked over his work and he saw that it was good. And, you know, we're going to look back and rejoice in what God did through us and the impact we made and the lives we changed and the reward we received. I think we'll spend some time where God will explain the mysteries, the questions, why he did what he did.

[00:36:55] 1 Corinthians 13, then we'll know, we know now in part, but then, you know, face to face. And I love that God will explain the things that seem inexplicable right now. One of my favorite verses, Ephesians 2, 6 to 7, where it says that God will show us the exceeding riches of his grace throughout the ages. I know his grace. I'm saved by it. I taste it. I see it.

[00:37:25] I experience it. And Paul is saying there's more to come in a measure that we can. And so heaven and eternity is going to be about us exploring and experience the vastness and greatness of God's kindness. We're going to serve him. I'm going to be busy. Liberty, and so are you. We're going to exercise dominion over the new earth the way Adam was meant to exercise dominion over the present earth. We're going to serve the Lord.

[00:37:54] We're going to build civilizations. We're going to, you know, do what Adam failed to do. And we're going to reign with Christ. We're going to be with God's people. We're going to spend eternity exploring God's goodness and grace, the new heaven and the new earth. Randy Alcorn even talks about, well, we explore other galaxies. But we're going to socialize.

[00:38:23] We're going to sit down with Abraham. We're going to talk to Paul. And we're going to worship. Yeah, there's a worship aspect. But we love God. We're going to see his glory. We're going to, he's good. Jesus is going to be the light, you know, in Revelation 21, 22. God's going to be among his people. There'll be no sanctuary, no temple. I can't wait to worship in a full manner.

[00:38:50] And then finally, you know, I was watching something about John Lennox the other day, the apologist, Northern Irishman. He was asked, he's in his 80s and he was asked about what he's looking forward to the most. You know what he said? To see the Lord. And then he paused, this pregnant pause, and the emotion kind of caught up with all that watched it. That's right. We're going to see the Lord. Isaiah 33, verse 17. We're going to see the king in all his beauty. Liberty, I lived in Northern Ireland.

[00:39:19] And one day, Princess Diana came to visit. And we wanted Northern Ireland to stay part of the British crown. And when someone from the royal family came to our province, we thought it was a great day. And I heard that she may be coming by where I was an associate pastor. A couple of us ran out, got to this road, this carriageway that we thought she might come by. And she did. But here's the problem, Liberty.

[00:39:47] She can buy at 65 miles an hour in an armored vehicle. And I caught a profile of her. That's all I caught, a little side profile of Princess Diana. And I'm telling you, I talked about it for about 31 days. I saw the princess. Yeah. And it was nothing. But there's coming a day in my life and your life and the listeners, like, we will behold the king in all his beauty. I say bring it on. Yeah. So good.

[00:40:14] I saw that clip of John Lennox as well. And, oh, my gosh, it was just so emotional to see his joy and his confidence. Yes. And knowing that that is going to be his reality very, very soon. And for all of us as well, because, man, in the perspective of eternity, like, you know, we are in the last days. And that's what that means. But we are almost out of time. Only got a couple of minutes left.

[00:40:41] But, Pastor Phillip, before we go, just maybe, you know, your final thoughts on why this is so important. I know you're passionate about this. And why is this something that we need to keep thinking about? Well, look, God has put eternity in our hearts. We long for something more. And the Bible tells us what that's going to look like. There's 25% of the Bible pulls back the curtains on the end times and the life to come.

[00:41:08] And if I want to be a true disciple, I'm going to endure to the end. Heaven will help me do that. I'll finish with a quick story about a pastor who was ganged up on and kicked out of his church. And he was packing his bags. And one of his faithful deacons couldn't believe it. And he met him out in the car lot. And he says, Pastor, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? And he said, it's okay. I'm going to heaven. And the deacon didn't kind of get it, Liberty.

[00:41:36] He says, well, I know you're going to heaven, but what are you going to do next? Where are you going to get a job? How are you going to survive? How are you going to get money? What are you going to do next? And he said, it's okay. I'm going to heaven. And then the penny dropped. Whether it's suffering, cancer, persecution, tough times, if we really grasp what my book's about, it's okay. We're going to heaven. That's what I want to get across in the book. When you and I grasp it, then our suffering is not going to be compared with it.

[00:42:05] We've got to use our time now to get ready for life to come and life after life. That's my word. Wow. So good. Pastor Philip DeCourcy, thank you so much for being on Point of View today. His book is Life After Life, Exploring the Bible's Wonderful Promises About Heaven. And we have a link to that and his website and ministry at pointofview.net, which I encourage you to check out. We're out of time for today, but you can check out links to everything we've talked about today at pointofview.net.

[00:42:34] And make sure that you tune in tomorrow as well. I've got an interview with Megan Fever Year on reclaiming boldness. That's a great devotional. And, of course, news and cultural topics from a biblical perspective as well, as always. So thank you, Megan, for engineering the show. Thank you, Derek, for producing the show today. And thank you for listening to Point of View. Again, don't forget, you can get the book that I was just talking about with Pastor Philip at pointofview.net.

[00:43:00] You can read the article I talked about with Daniel Darling on Just War Theory at pointofview.net as well. And more to come this week. It's only Monday, but we're praying that you have a wonderful week and that you'll join us here again tomorrow on Point of View. The Bible tells us not to worry. And yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today. Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry. God gives us a next step.

[00:43:28] He says we need to pray. But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult. And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement, a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation. Each week you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans, along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others.

[00:43:56] We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand. Will you commit to pray for America? Go to pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner at the top of the page to subscribe. Again, that's pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner.

[00:44:23] Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America. Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.