Point of View August 17, 2026 – Hour 2 : The Power to Overcome

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View. And now, Kerby Anderson.

[00:00:20] Thanks for joining me on the second hour of Point of View today. Wrapped up a wonderful conversation with in-studio guest Andrea Crum in the first hour. If you missed it and you want to learn about her Biblical Worldview curriculum, please go to pointofview.net and you can get information there. But let's turn to another important topic. We all want to be overcomers. And I think that if you are a Christian listening, then you know that our battle is not against flesh and blood.

[00:00:46] But how can we prevail in spiritual warfare? Well, we have a wonderful book to talk about, The Power to Overcome by Charles Crismire. He has been on Point of View in the past. And let me just introduce you a little bit. Charles is the founder and president of Save America Ministries as a formal trial lawyer for 20 years and a pastor for 30.

[00:01:05] Today, Chuck brings a prophetic word of wooing and warning to our troubled world. The Power to Overcome discusses the spiritual battles confronting Christians in troubled times, the prophetic message of revelation, and how believers can stand with faith, courage, and hope as we await Christ's return. So thanks for joining us, Chuck. Well, liberty is a give me liberty or give me death. I choose liberty. Okay, good. Well, then you're in the right place. We're all in the right place today.

[00:01:35] By the way, I want to make sure I'm coming through clearly. Oh, yeah, I can hear you. I can hear you great. That's wonderful. So thanks so much again for joining Point of View to talk about this book. And something that really struck me as I started reading through it is that when we look at the book of Revelation, the final book in the Bible, oftentimes we are looking for information. Or it's just it's kind of a trippy book to read. It's kind of crazy. Or maybe people are looking for clues.

[00:02:03] We want to know exactly when we can expect Christ's return. But what we don't often think about is transformation, and that's what really matters. So could you talk about that difference between information and transformation and why that we should look at Revelation through that lens? Well, sister, you must have been listening to my radio program for the last 10 years. Because that's the contrast that I'm always talking about, the difference between information and transformation.

[00:02:28] And God doesn't call us to be informed, but he rather expects us to be transformed, the renewing of our minds and our hearts. And we might prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. And isn't it interesting that what we think we know or want to know about the book of Revelation has nothing to do with transformation. It has to do with information, which actually involves our fascination. So we're fascinated by the mark of the beast.

[00:02:53] We're fascinated by the whole idea of Armageddon and all of the angels and the bold judgments and the trumpet judgments and so on. But the reality is that the book of Revelation is framed by seven warnings that Jesus gave to the seven churches of Asia, representative of the then-time church, the now-time church, and the end-time church.

[00:03:19] Then, as if that were not enough, he concludes the book in Revelation 21 with exactly the same warning. And what is that warning? To him that overcometh. To him that overcometh. To him that overcometh. Eight times now. And then he concludes it by saying, He who hath an ear to hear, let him hear. Now the message is not to the unbeliever, but to the church. He said, Let him who hears hear, He who hears. He who hears. He who hears.

[00:03:47] And so this is the message, the primary message of the book of Revelation, the substance of it. And the Lord really moved upon my heart to write about this following my last book was called, When Persecution Comes, How to Prepare for Difficult Times. You know, I think that's a really important point. And I'm just up to this question now, because you say that it's addressed to believers where,

[00:04:14] you know, it's addressed to Christians and that warning to those who overcome. And so this is a point that you talk about in your book, but can Christians be deceived? And if we're wanting to guard against deception during these times, then what does that imply? And maybe as the modern American church, we aren't really thinking in those terms. We think I'm saved. I'm good. I'm protected from being deceived by the world. So talk about that.

[00:04:42] Liberty, I'm so grateful for how you're introducing this, because it gives me an opportunity to really go to the depths of the issues that we face. And interestingly, all of the warnings of Scripture, virtually all of them are to believers. They're not to unbelievers. They're to believers, whether they be the Jews as the chosen people or then to Christians as professing believers in Jesus.

[00:05:09] So if we really understood that, we might look at the Bible very differently. And perhaps we should, because if we're living on the near edge of the Second Coming, which many of us believe we're right in that, shall we say, the latter days of the last days, then we would take significant interest in what Jesus had to say about these things. So you ask the question about deception or seduction.

[00:05:37] When Jesus was about to go to the cross, two days before that, he was gathered with his disciples on the Mount of Olives, and they asked him, saying, Master, when shall the end come? What would be the end of the age? And he said, the very first thing Jesus said was, take heed that no man deceive you. And he was talking to his disciples. And he's talking to us today as his disciples. Take heed that no man deceive you.

[00:06:04] Then, as if that were not enough, Jesus considered that so important that then he went on later on in the book of Matthew, chapter 24, and said, you know what, guys? The deception is going to be so great that if it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. Now, that would be a very remnant small of people who were true followers of Jesus Christ, not just professing believers, but possessing believers who were really walking with the Lord. He said, if it were possible, even they could be deceived.

[00:06:34] He also said that many will come in my name to your churches and deceive many. So Jesus made that a preeminent issue in the Olivet Discourse there in Matthew, chapter 24. But then if you look at the word deception, it's related to the word seduction. And the word seduction has heavy sexual connotations. And that's why the Bible uses it in the Old Testament and in the New Testament.

[00:07:01] And the Apostle Paul talked about leaders that would come upon us and seduce us, being seduced and seducing others. So who is he talking to? He's talking to believers. Now, if believers could not be seduced and couldn't be deceived, then why would Jesus and his apostles warn us about it? The problem is we deceived ourselves in thinking we can't be deceived. That's the ultimate deception.

[00:07:26] And so if we really think that way, we're actually, what should we say, almost cutting out major portions of the word of God, the most salient portions that Jesus warned us about with a mental razor blade. And so we need to understand that if it's possible for us to see, then we also can be subject to that which requires us to be overcomers. What is it? What in the world is it that we're supposed to overcome?

[00:07:55] If Jesus expects us to be overcomers, the apostles talk about being overcomers. What is it that we have to overcome? And that's what this book is about. First of all, recognizing that we must be overcomers, then what is it that we have to overcome and how do we do it? Yeah, so important. We're about to go to a break, but when we come back, let's dive into some of those things that we need to be aware of so that we can overcome.

[00:08:22] This is just a wonderful theme forming on this show today, and it's like God is maybe having a hand in it, which absolutely he is all the time. But we just talked about the importance in the first hour of building a foundation of a biblical worldview, and that wouldn't be important either if we weren't at risk for deception. So let's keep digging into what Scripture says about how we can protect our hearts and minds and overcome when we get back from this short break.

[00:09:00] This is Viewpoints with Kerby Anderson. Flock cameras may be even more controversial than data centers. These cameras have been set up around the country and use AI-enhanced surveillance systems that include automatic license plate readers. Representative Keith Self was on my radio program recently to talk about his bill, the Privacy Act, that addresses this issue. Now there are advantages. If your truck is stolen, police typically take a report and hope it is recovered.

[00:09:28] With this technology, law enforcement could spot the thieves on camera before you even return home. It would help with amber alerts or silver alerts. However, the camera doesn't just read the plates of a stolen truck or car carrying a passenger who needs to be found. It reads your license plate every day as you go to work, to the store, to church, to rally, to a gun store. In fact, the new camera reads more than a license plate and stays on searchable databases for an extended period. Here's the problem. One camera is a tool.

[00:09:58] More than 100,000 of them are another layer of digital surveillance. The Privacy Act would require federal law enforcement to obtain a warrant before accessing data collected. It would also limit retention of the data to 30 days unless it includes evidence for prosecution or court orders and extension. We supposedly have Fourth Amendment protections against unlawful searches, but many of those protections are fading because of surveillance technology.

[00:10:24] Congressman Self reminded us that Americans' right to be secure in their privacy does not disappear just because of new technology or artificial intelligence. This is a common sense legislation that allows the benefits but protects us from potential abuses. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:49] Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. All right, we're back with Charles Krismeyer talking about his book, The Power to Overcome, How to Triumph in Troubled Times.

[00:11:13] Chuck, you said something a minute ago about how many Christians believe that we are in the latter days of the last days, and so we really do need to be hearkening to Jesus' words about overcoming. But I just thought, man, shouldn't we, regardless of what time it is, because we don't know for sure, shouldn't we want to heed his words and make sure that we're prepared? Because we don't know. He could come at any time.

[00:11:37] And so the fact that we would think, well, we don't really need to be serious about that just yet is kind of crazy to me. But you talked about how so many of the warnings in Scripture are directed toward Christians, and so we do need to heed them. But when we are talking about areas of deception or seduction, what are the different battlefields, so to speak, that we need to be aware of where we're vulnerable maybe to that kind of deception?

[00:12:07] Well, my goodness, Liberty, you lay things out so nicely. I'm just reading off questions from the book that you wrote. This is from your book. Interestingly, I interviewed Kirby Anderson on my very first broadcast in 1930, 1995, and our broadcast is called Viewpoint, Confronting the Deepest Issues of America's Heart and Home.

[00:12:33] Yeah, I interviewed him concerning his book Signs of Warning, Signs of Hope, that came out in 1994. So he and I have a long sojourn, even though I haven't been on his program too many times. He actually joined me right at the outset of our viewpoint. How neat. How neat. I thought that was interesting history there. Yeah. Okay, let's go back. First of all, about eight years ago, I actually wrote a book called Seduction of the Saints,

[00:13:00] How to Stay Pure in a World of Deception, because this issue, seduction and deception, is so important for us to understand. If we don't understand it, we cannot be ready for the coming of the Lord. We just can't be ready, because all of the warnings of Scripture are to believers, implying that we're not ready. So let's take a quick look at this. First of all, human nature is still human nature.

[00:13:30] In other words, we tend to go to the moment of last resort before we decide to take action. Then all of a sudden we panic. Oh, wow, did you hear, did you know what was coming? Did you know? No. No. We've been told what was coming. We've been told what was coming for 2,000 years. We're at 1,930 years, certainly. And so we've been told all of this, but it still doesn't resonate.

[00:13:58] One of the reasons it doesn't resonate is because in America we have not experienced significant persecution. The only persecution we've experienced here is what you might call lawfare, lawsuits and so on, against Christians and Christian businesses. But all over the world, persecution is rapidly coming and in the United States of America. What do you think the Islamic invasion is about? That's what it's about.

[00:14:28] And so, look, what we're looking at here is a time right now, on the day of Pentecost, the end times began. The Apostle Peter said so, quoting the book of Joel. Then, the book of Ezekiel, the prophet talks about the latter days. The latter days when Israel is at peace and when the Gog and Magog war takes place, which has not happened yet. So that's yet to take place.

[00:14:57] So we are in the period of the latter days, of the last days. How long is the period of the latter days? We are not told in the Bible. Then there's a very short period at the end of the latter days called the day of the Lord. And that's the day when Jesus pours out his judgment on the children of disobedience, beginning with Revelation chapter 19. So we're living in this period of time. It's becoming ever shortening.

[00:15:26] It requires us to take serious heed to the warnings of Scripture that we might be ready. So what is it we have to overcome? You ask the question. There are three things that we generally talk about in broad terms. The world, and the flesh, and the devil. Most people think the devil made me do it. You know, that's the ultimate default. The devil made me do it.

[00:15:52] Well, the devil doesn't make anybody do anything, quite frankly. He didn't make Eve disavow God's promise in the Bible. He only gave her the opportunity to do it. That's how he uses deception. So what is the world? What does that mean? What does the flesh mean? And what does the devil mean? This book helps to unfold in very practical ways what that really looks like in real time,

[00:16:22] in Western culture, and the United States of America. We have it so easy here, and we just don't quite get it yet. Yeah, I appreciated that point in your book because I think it's so true. We live such a comfortable life, and that can really numb us to so much of what the Bible has to say. But when we are talking about our enemy, I thought this was a good analogy, too, that, you know,

[00:16:51] if you're talking about military strategy, then you have to know your enemy. And so the Ephesians 6 says that our fight is not against flesh and blood. And he talked about kind of those three battlefields of the world, the flesh, and the devil. And we're given armor. But make that tangible for us because that might just be a passage of people like, yeah, the armor of God. But what does that actually mean for the way that we live our lives? Liberty, that's exactly how people think. I already know about that. Oh, I heard that. Oh, yeah, I can quote that passage.

[00:17:21] The issue isn't whether you can quote the passage. The question is whether you're operational in it. In other words, it goes back to the transformation rather than the information. We're obese with Christian information in this country. We have well over 2,000 Christian radio stations and television stations across the country. We have, what is it, 300-some thousand congregations in the country. We have all kinds.

[00:17:50] We have book publishing. We have Christian music. We have all of these things. We're obese with Christian information, but we're not transformed. We're just not living a transformed life. How do we know that? Well, for instance, George Gallup, when he was heading up the Gallup News, he said, you know what, this is back in 1997. He said, we have so much, so many Bibles.

[00:18:17] The problem is not that we don't read the Bible. It's that we don't obey the Bible. Then you have George Barna, who has been pollstered to the church for the past 25 years. He's appeared probably on Kirby's program. He's appeared online. He and I have had personal talks out there in Ventura.

[00:18:40] And what he's saying is, look, if you look at the statistics describing the life and ways of Americans as a whole and compare it with the life and ways of professing Christians, there's almost no difference, almost no meaningful difference. Wow. I mean, look, I practiced law in California for 20 years as a trial lawyer.

[00:19:09] Eighty percent of my clients came from the broader body of Christ. I live by law office right across from one of the most notable evangelical Christian churches in Southern California. It was just two miles from Fuller Seminary, the preeminent evangelical seminary in the country at that time. I watched all of this take place. It was amazing to see this take place, the deterioration.

[00:19:38] And then you got Ronald Reagan, who was then governor of California, inaugurated the No Fault Divorce Act in 1968. He said it was the worst thing he ever did in his whole life. But the church didn't think so. The church adopted the thinking of that and spread divorce all across the country. So that the divorce rate in the Bible Belt of America, where you and I live for the past 25 years,

[00:20:08] has exceeded the nation as a whole by 50 percent. How could you explain that if we're overcomers? No, we have been overcome. We've all been overcome by the deceiver. We've been overcome by the culture and perhaps even the devil, because he works behind the scenes to deceive and give us the opportunity to be deceived. So that just is one illustration of many, many, many to show how this has happened.

[00:20:36] And it happened partly through the church growth movement that began in Southern California in the early 1970s. When Jesus said, I'll build churches and you make disciples, we decided to build churches and not make disciples. So we diluted the thrust of the word of God and its requirement in our lives for 20 years until the 1990s,

[00:21:01] in which we decided even that was not enough dilution in order to try to win pagans to embrace themselves in our churches. And so we decided to offer up the Sika-sensitive movement to make it even less requirements for people to enter the kingdom of God. And they didn't come in as believers. They came in as deceivers. We're about to go to a break. I'm going to go off script a little bit and see if Chuck can stay with us for a few more minutes. But either way, we'll be right back after this break.

[00:21:33] In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle, not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas. London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism, and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon. London was in many ways the center of the world economically, militarily, and intellectually. Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports.

[00:22:02] Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers. Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth. It is truth for all of life. Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today? Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox when you sign up for the Viewpoints Commentary at pointofview.net slash signup.

[00:22:30] Every weekday in less than two minutes, you'll learn how to be a person of light to stand against darkness in our time. It's free, so visit pointofview.net slash signup right now. Pointofview.net slash signup. Point of View will continue after this.

[00:23:00] You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again is Liberty McCartney. All right, we've been talking with Charles Krizmeyer on his book, The Power to Overcome, How to Triumph in Troubled Times. Chuck, I see you're still with us here, so are you good for a few more minutes of talking about your book? Absolutely.

[00:23:28] I thought we were on for an hour. Oh, okay. Well, great. Then perfect. It works out wonderfully. This is so important.

[00:23:35] So I do want to keep you on to keep talking about this because what you were saying right before the break is that when you are looking at a lot of these researchers, we mentioned Dr. George Barna, who we've referenced and had on Point of View multiple times, and others, if you're looking at worldview, if you're looking at how people actually live their lives, there's not a lot of distinction between the church and the world.

[00:24:02] And so I think that right there is evidence that not only we can be deceived as professing Christians, but we have been. That's right. We've been overcome. And you know what's interesting about that? And I've thought about this a lot. Everybody wants to talk about worldview. I think our problem is not just worldview. It's God view. We just don't have a proper view of God. We just don't realize he's God. And when he has spoken, he means what he says. He says what he means.

[00:24:30] Jesus said, I and the Father are one. I'm coming back. If you've seen me, you've seen the Father. I and the Father are one. And therefore, God has appointed me to speak to you. And when I come back, I'm going to be appointed to judge the world in righteousness, whether or not you have overcome, just like I overcame. Jesus overcame the world, the flesh, and the devil.

[00:24:54] Because of that, he was given the position of being the Savior of the world. Without his overcoming, like none of Israel ever did, he became the sole Israelite to be a true Israelite. And because of that, God anointed him to become the Savior, and he became obedient even to the death of the cross.

[00:25:17] So therefore, he said, he turned around just before he ascended back to the Father, and he said, as the Father sent me now, even so I send you. What did the Father send him to do? To overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil. In other words, to show that it was possible to obey God, which is what he required for us to enter into the kingdom of heaven. So, therefore, Jesus said, now, I showed you the way.

[00:25:47] I've told you the way. I've given disciples to show you the way. Now, follow them. Follow me. And so he wants us to follow him to be overcomers. And if we don't do that, if we pick and choose what we want to do, what we want to obey, what we don't want to obey, which is what we have done, thinking that somehow our faith is a democratic endeavor,

[00:26:13] that we can pick and choose as a majority to determine what it is that God wants us to do or to be. It's not that way. God says, no, you don't understand. This is not about democracy. This is about following me. In other words, for the Christian, it's a theocracy, not a democracy. So it's not the rule of the people. It's the rule of God. So the problem is our God view, not our worldview. You can have a worldview that seems to be great.

[00:26:42] But if we don't have the proper God view and realize he is God, he couldn't convince Israel that he was God. But over and over and over again, he said, look, look, guys, I am God and there is none other. Don't you get it? I am God and there is none other. But they didn't overcome. They were overcome. And God had to send prophet after prophet after prophet. And guess what they did with them? Every one of them was run out of town, including Jesus himself. Why?

[00:27:10] Because they did not want to be overcomers from God's viewpoint. They wanted to do it their way. And one of the things that I think you make, this is such a great point, is how we understand grace. My pastor at the church where I attend, he talks about sloppy grace or cheap grace, which is the misconception that, OK, I can because of grace, like I can sin because God's going to forgive me. And how that's the wrong attitude.

[00:27:40] I really like the way that you frame it as grace enabling power for us to obey him, because people may be thinking, man, I really want to follow God. I want to obey. And yet I'm struggling. And maybe they're feeling defeated because of that. And so talk about the power of grace to actually enable us to live out this life that God has called us to. I can't believe how wonderfully you're presenting this.

[00:28:09] I'm just so blessed to see how you're cutting to the chase here, liberty. That's going to bring liberty to a lot of people, I think. Well, thanks. Again, your book, your book. I'm just basing the questions off of your book. OK. Well, let's talk about grace. Grace is not just God's unmerited favor. It's for a purpose.

[00:28:38] Grace is God's, fundamentally, it's God's enabling power, notwithstanding who we are, notwithstanding our ability or inability. It's God's enabling power to enable and equip us to do his will. In other words, to obey his voice. That's what grace is. And we need all the grace we can get. Grace is not to overlook our sin.

[00:29:00] Grace is not to put a rubber stamp on our alleged confession of faith 30 years ago at some Billy Graham rally and then somehow say, I can live what I want for the rest of my time. That's not grace. That's, at the very best, greasy grace. But it's not grace at all. In fact, it's a mockery of grace. Grace is God's enabling power to equip and enable us to do his will.

[00:29:27] So if you were to go to Matthew chapter 7, and you find some very well-quoted passages of Scripture. One is, Straight is the gate, narrow is the way, and precious few there be that find it. But broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there be that go in thereat. He's not talking just to unbelievers there, as people like to think. He's talking to people who are supposedly religious followers of the one true God.

[00:29:56] Straight is the gate, narrow is the way, and precious few there be that find it. Now, he gives further definition to that as you go back down in Matthew chapter 70. Jesus said this. These are the words of Jesus. He said, Not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord. In other words, not everyone who says unto me, I'm a Christian, I'm a Christian, I'm a Christian, is going to inherit the kingdom of God. Who did Jesus say is going to inherit the kingdom of God?

[00:30:24] Those who do his will. Why did he say that? Because that's what he was anointed to do, and to lead others to do the same. But we don't get it. We just don't seem to get the message of the gospel. The reason the gospel is good news is because we are living under profound bad news, which is a death penalty. The wages of death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[00:30:53] How did he gain that? The Apostle Paul said he gained it by humbling himself and becoming obedient even to the death on the cross. So we're going to have to completely reassess our thinking about grace because it's enabling the entire country to have a grace awakening to be a disgrace to the world.

[00:31:20] You know, I think that's such a powerful thing that we need to realize is that Jesus is our Savior as we understand him. But he came to give us an example of how we live as human beings. And so we've got a couple minutes before the break, and then we'll come back, and I'll ask you a few more. But just because this is a really important point, maybe you can get started on it for us.

[00:31:45] There are so many churches, like you said, we're inundated with information about the Bible, but maybe not always, probably not always living that out correctly. And I think one of the reasons is something that you write about, which is there is a tactic we see from the enemy in Scripture. We see examples of using Scripture itself and twisting that in order to deceive. And you said something that I think is really important, that the details matter.

[00:32:10] So maybe get us started on that, how we can understand, you know, how can we trust or know that maybe Scripture isn't being twisted in the way that we're being taught or it's being presented to us? Well, for one thing, truth is truth. It's not what I want it to be. It's not what I hope it to be. It's what it is. Not from our viewpoint, but from God's viewpoint. Therein lies Point of View or our program's viewpoint. I say regularly viewpoint determines destiny.

[00:32:39] Our viewpoints are determining destiny concerning the Word of God because we don't like God's viewpoint on so many things. We just don't. Our pastors don't preach it. What they do, they edit out those portions that they don't like or that's inconsistent with their man-made theological structures. And in order to make everything fit, they edit out or try to make excuses for many passages that just don't fit. That's not how we should be looking at the Word of God.

[00:33:08] We should be looking at it for ultimate truth. What is it that God really wants from us? Not do we want what we want from God, but what He wants from us. Yeah. And if we understood that, then we wouldn't understand even more the need for the power to overcome. And God wants us to be triumphant in these troubled times, and they're going to get more troubled as the days go on. All right.

[00:33:34] We're going to one of those breaks, but still more to cover on the power to overcome with Charles Krismier. So he'll be back, and we'll be back after this short break on Point of View. Don't go anywhere.

[00:33:43] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. All right. Let's bring this home with Chuck Krismier talking about his latest book, The Power to Overcome, How to Triumph in Troubled Times.

[00:34:11] We've talked about how we're in the last days, and we need to be prepared for Jesus' return and how we are vulnerable to deception and seduction by the world. And so we need to make sure that we are obeying God, that we are living according to how He says we should live in His Word, and that grace enables us to obey and enables us to do that, and Jesus showed us what that looked like. But something you write in the book that I think is just great is when we are talking about cultural warfare,

[00:34:40] and anybody listening to Point of View and your show Viewpoints, I'm sure, as well knows, you know, we talk about the culture wars. We talk about what's wrong in our culture and the sin that we see in our culture and the unbiblical living. But you also say we need to articulate what we're fighting for, not just what we're fighting against. And this is so important. In the first hour, we had a guest who talked about being proactive with kids, for instance,

[00:35:09] and not just reacting but actually laying a foundation of God's design. And so I'd love to hear your take on what we're fighting for as well. Well, I appreciate the fact that there are those that are doing that, sometimes with our young people, sometimes with others. The number one thing that God expects us to do if we're going to be proactive is to disciple professing Christians. And that's the one thing we don't do. Jesus said, I'll build my church.

[00:35:39] You make disciples. We thought discipling was to teach people to know what the church book had to say or the denominational scriptures were. That's not discipleship. Discipleship is what Jesus said in his last words to his disciples in Matthew 28.

[00:36:04] He said, go into all the world and preach the gospel, teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded. In other words, to make disciples. He didn't tell them to make converts. We've completely misidentified God's purpose. Jesus did not say go out and make converts. He said make disciples, teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded,

[00:36:31] believing that if those people would do that, then others would come in just as they did in the early church, and God would add to the church daily such as should be saved. We decided that's not good enough. We've got to modify what we're going to expect of people, how they should live, what God expects. We're going to modify that in order to seduce them into our congregations.

[00:36:57] But what we did, we actually liquefied the substance of the interior of our congregations for believers and actually decided to pander to unbelievers, totally opposite of what the Bible calls for. So this is a serious, serious problem. We have gotten so much out of whack concerning what the Bible's purposes were to the point where one major descendant

[00:37:26] of the church growth movement was attacked publicly about 10 years ago. He was one of the premier disciples of Dr. Robert Shuler, who was the founder of the church growth movement in Southern California. And this guy started the Willow Creek movement in Chicago that spread all over the world, and what came about was a discovery after study that their people,

[00:37:56] the thousands and thousands and thousands of people that were matriculating into their congregation knew almost nothing about the Bible or God's expectations in their lives. In other words, they had not been disciples. It was a massive, the words are just almost impossible to gather together to describe the horrendous effect of that across the country.

[00:38:22] So what's happening is people in our country do not see Christians as being Christians. Do you know, Liberty, that the whole advance of the homosexual and transgender movement began with Ronald Reagan's No Fault Divorce Act in 1968? Because the church adopted divorce then, and it made its way rapidly through California

[00:38:50] and then the rest of the country in our churches. Then remarriage after people had been divorced, which Jesus called adultery if your spouse is still living, and that became normalized. In other words, we bought into the ways of the culture. We were deceived by the culture. We wanted to be deceived. We wanted to follow the ways of the culture.

[00:39:16] So then along comes the homosexual movement in the late 1980s. We were right in the heart of it there in Southern California, right even on our street. And here's what happened. Those that were trending to or drawn to same-sex relationships reasoned like this.

[00:39:44] Well, you Christians obviously don't believe what God said about marriage and divorce. So why do you think we should take it any more seriously concerning the matter of homosexuality? That was their argument. And you can't fight it. How can you fight it when you have absolutely no spiritual integrity in your message to deal with it? You yourself have adopted the ways of the culture, and that's what's happened.

[00:40:14] That's why the divorce rate in the Bible Belt of America for the past 25 years, and did you know that in Dallas, Texas, the buckle of the Bible Belt just a few years ago, the divorce rate was 65%? Wow. Did you know that? I did not. This is a travesty. Now, just very quickly, let's talk about the devil. We've got about a couple minutes left, but go ahead, Chuck. Okay, very quickly.

[00:40:42] In Southern California, there's a mountain 10,000 feet in San Gabriel Valley, 10,000 feet. It's a bald mountain. It's called Mount Baldy. And it's nothing in the rest of the year except when it has snow on top of it. And because I did a lot of climbing and a lot of hiking, I loved to climb Mount Baldy in the winter. So you climb up Mount Baldy, and you get to the last, say, quarter of a mile to the summit.

[00:41:10] And it's a very narrow passage. They call it the devil's backbone. The devil's backbone. Now, why is that? Even though it's not that difficult, it's one of the most dangerous stretches on any of the mountains in America. Why is it? Because the people that cross it don't take it seriously. So you've got it snow covered. There's a beautiful cornice that the wind has blown the snow over the edge,

[00:41:40] and people think they can cavalierly deal with whatever they want and go over there. And they fall off either 2,000 feet on one side or 2,000 feet on the other side. Here's the problem. And I want to apply it very deeply even where you live and where we live. In Dallas, Texas alone, in the last two years, 13 major ministries have gone off the side of the devil's backbone on one side or the other.

[00:42:11] Are you listening? Yeah. Those ministries have completely been destroyed. Their pastors and leaders, who were some of the leaders in the world, have been disgraced. Why? Because they did not overcome. They were overcome. Chuck, it's been great having you on Point of View. Our time clock is winding down. Time flies when you're having fun and a good conversation. And I just want to thank you for talking about this important issue.

[00:42:39] God has given us the power to overcome, but we've got to live according to his word. And so go to pointofview.net. If you click the link under Chuck's name, then you will see the link to his book, The Power to Overcome. And I just encourage you to check that out and to also remember we've got to live according to God's word. And if we do, then we will be the light that our culture needs. So thanks, Megan, for engineering the show. Thanks, Derek, for producing. Thank you for listening. And don't forget to tune in tomorrow to Point of View. Kirby will be back hosting you.

[00:43:09] So tune in then. The Bible tells us not to worry. And yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today. Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry. God gives us a next step. He says we need to pray. But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult.

[00:43:36] And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement, a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation. Each week, you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans, along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others. We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand.

[00:44:05] Will you commit to pray for America? Go to pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner at the top of the page to subscribe. Again, that's pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner. Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America.

[00:44:30] Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries. Point of View Ministries.