Point of View August 12, 2026 – Hour 2 : Dating Sites Treating People Like Shoes, UFOs and God

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kerby Anderson. Second hour today, let's see what we can talk about family and marriage, and in particular, we've posted an article, Dating Apps Are Treating People Like Shoes on Amazon. Here's what that means for the church.

[00:00:30] Now, to really discuss that, we're going to go back to a conversation we've had back in April with J.P. DeGantz, and he is the founder and president of Communio, which we'll talk more about that in just a minute, but you might remember from the conversation at the time that he was very concerned about the future of marriage and family,

[00:00:49] and so began to figure out what could happen if we were to begin to test some different kinds of strategies that might move the needle on marital health, family stability, and the engagement of the church. And the sad reality is a lot of churches don't spend as much time as I think they should in terms of building strong marriages and strong families.

[00:01:13] So, in some respects, this is another aspect of one of the concerns that we have. So, again, we want to bring back to the conversation J.P. DeGantz, and thank you for joining us again here on Point of View. Thanks so much, Kirby. Great to be back with you. Tell the story again, because it's a fascinating one, because we have for decades, literally on this program, talked about the need for churches to build strong marriages.

[00:01:40] And I am in a church where we have a Before You Say I Do program, and even some where you have the After I Say I Do program, so that this is something that is really needed and necessary. And yet we oftentimes let people go into marriage with less training than we allow them to go out on the streets to drive a car. And it seems to me that there's some things that need to change, and you are at the forefront of them, aren't you? Well, thank you, Kirby.

[00:02:07] Yeah, look, a good way to think about this if you're a pastor or you're a concerned Christian, we can look around. Regardless of the problem that you're identifying, it's probably flowing down from the crisis of marriage and the family. Point out, religious non-affiliation, right? The growth in the number of the so-called nuns. It's driven by the decline of adults who grew up in a home with continuously married parents.

[00:02:32] We just published some new research since we last spoke, Kirby, that showed that the health of the married home is the single biggest factor that is influencing whether or not kids grow up to choose to become a professing Christian, right? And we should be concerned about this both in terms of there's too few people getting married today, right? This is a multilayered problem.

[00:03:01] You've got the health of current marriages, the preparation of people who have already coupled up, but too few people are aspiring to it and seeking it, right? There are about a third less marriages happening annually than in the year 2000. There's 65% less marriages happening today than in 1965.

[00:03:19] So there's a huge thing here, and the reality is it looks like, Kirby, based on the research data, our kids are oftentimes listening to parents here, actually, more so than you would think. I think nine out of ten parents in a Pew Research poll that came out recently said that they said it's very important that their kids are financially independent, and nine out of ten said it's very important that they have a fulfilling career.

[00:03:47] But when parents were asked about marriage and family for their children, only one in five, just 21%, said it was important that their kids get married, and just 20% said it was important that their kids grow up to have kids, right? So it turns out, I think, overall, our young people are hearing the message that the parents are prioritizing,

[00:04:10] the culture is prioritizing for them, which is to seek mammon rather than those enduring goods of marriage and the covenant of marriage. Again, you've mentioned quite a bit, and let me get to one of those. First of all, let me just say for people that are maybe saying I'm writing as fast as I can because some people love, JP, to take notes, but the good news is the piece Dating Apps Treating People Like Shoes has a lot of facts and figures.

[00:04:39] So if you find yourself saying, I didn't know that or I need that fact or I would like to read that more, we do have that posted, and, of course, they can also follow you as well. But one of those that you just alluded to is the issue of cohabitation, and I've been following this for some time because we've gone from a time in which living together was rare and now routine, and I went through that when I was teaching at Dallas Theological Seminary where, at first,

[00:05:07] when we would talk about that in our doctor on ministry program, they'd say, well, what do we do with those people that think they should live together before marriage that are, in some respects, outside the church or just coming to the church to get married? And then it changed very quickly to what do we do with all the young people who are engaged in premarital counseling in the church and are living together? And your number is at 70%. I think that's pretty close to accurate.

[00:05:35] So it's gone from being rare to routine, and that has an impact because we can document through all sorts of secular studies that if you live together before marriage, it increases your likelihood of divorce by an additional 50% because, or in some cases, as you just pointed out, they don't get married in the first place. So this is the cohabitation issue, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And we should think of cohabitation as a competitor to marriage, actually.

[00:06:02] Oftentimes people are seeking it instead of or as a way to the perception is it's going to make it safer if they end up choosing to get married later, right? And so, yeah, the likelihood, the studies show between 60% and 80% higher rate of divorce. What's really stunning is Glenn Stanton's research shows that not only are you more likely to get divorced

[00:06:29] if you marry that person, actually, if I cohabitate for a long period of time and break it off and then go through and get married to somebody I did not cohabitate with, the likelihood of that marriage is divorced is the same as a second marriage, right? So follow me here. What that means is there's a skill within the area of marriage and relationship education that people have identified as the skill of commitment, right? And we have to practice being committed, actually, in a certain sense.

[00:06:58] And so that cohabitation psychologically helps us practice to not be committed. In short, you jump in a boat and each person has one leg out of the boat. And we're rowing because, I don't know, at any period of time I might want to jump out of the boat. Well, how fast is that boat going to go and how stable is it going to be? Very well. Right? And marriage is ultimately when both people jump in with both feet and they go on life's great adventure together. Yes. Well, we need to take a break. I want to get into some other aspects of this in just a minute.

[00:07:27] But let me just as a program note mention that one of the booklets we've made available over these years is on cohabitation because it is something that even the secular scientists, people of the National Marriage Project and others, Rutgers University and go to all sorts of places, have documented this. And yet you oftentimes run into, well, you wouldn't buy a pair of shoes if you didn't try them on. You wouldn't get a car without a test drive. And how do we respond to some of those issues?

[00:07:54] First, from just sheer common sense and then obviously from a biblical point of view. So that's one of the issues. But let me also encourage you to maybe scroll down to our section on show materials because we have this piece on dating apps, treating people like shoes. And also I would encourage you to find the picture of J.P. DeGantz because we have, of course, a link to the website, which is Communio.org. And you don't have to know how to spell all that. Also the Facebook and X page.

[00:08:24] We have some information where you can read his entire profile and learn just a little bit more about what they are doing. So when we come back, let's get into this issue of these dating apps because just as cohabitation sets up the wrong set of expectations and maybe not even helping with conflict resolution, dating apps are another problem which we need to talk about, which is why we'll do that right after this.

[00:09:00] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. You know, many false ideas are being spread by a handful of popular podcasters. Fortunately, John Stonestreet and Professor Glenn Sunshine answer with a breakpoint commentary, no, Islam is not kind to Christians. For example, they take on the false claim that relations between Islam and the Christian world were peaceful for 500 years.

[00:09:26] After the death of Muhammad, the Muslim army moved out of Arabia and took the Holy Land and North Africa from the Christian Byzantine Empire. It also conquered Spain and advanced into France a few hundred miles from Paris. Christians in those conquered regions were treated as demis, second-class citizens, and were required to pay a jizra, a special tax and sign of submission. And this leads to another false claim that Muslim leaders protected Christian holy sites. They respond, nothing could be further from the truth.

[00:09:55] Many were demolished. Others were turned into mosques. They also document the treatment of Christians under the Ottoman Empire. Boys and girls were often taken into slavery. They also remind us that the worst violence of the Armenian, Assyrian, and Greek genocides of the earliest 20th century, where millions were killed. Today we see how difficult it is for Christians to live in a Muslim country,

[00:10:18] and the news continually reports the ongoing slaughter of Christians in Nigeria and other African countries. I applaud these two men for setting the record straight. I would encourage you to read their short commentary or get a copy of my book, Understanding Islam and Terrorism, A Biblical Point of View. We cannot let these false ideas go unchallenged. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:49] Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back once again, J.P. DeGantz with us as we are talking about how dating apps are treating people like shoes on Amazon and what that means for the church.

[00:11:15] One of your core findings, J.P., was dating apps are training people not to commit. Can you tell us some more? Yeah. Yeah. There's, you know, there's multiple academic studies now confirming this, that as we've proliferated, as these apps have proliferated, we're decreasingly likely to wind up in a committed relationship, right?

[00:11:40] There's a particular study that found, for instance, amongst women using the apps, we're close to a 30% less likely to accept a date from another person that people frequently will just keep swiping and swiping and swiping and swiping, and it tends to create an atmosphere where you might go on a date

[00:12:05] and you might enjoy yourself, but you think, gosh, there are, you know, 10, 12, 20, 30 other potential matches, right? And so you've had this strange phenomenon where a paradox, some academics describe it this way, that we've never, it's never in a certain sense been easier to find a date if we're willing to use these apps,

[00:12:31] but we're having the fewest number of people married per capita in our country's history. So our big message to pastors and to Christian parents is that we have to encourage in real life avenues for people to form friendships across in heterogeneous, you know, men and women groups, boy and girl groups,

[00:12:55] where they can form healthy relationships, learn, you know, learn what healthy dating courtship can look like, and really the local church can and should be a place where that really happens. I think oftentimes pastors think, wow, there's some, you know, there's an app for that, right? It's a big problem I see out there, the whole world's burning, but maybe there'll be an app that'll solve the problem, and the reality is, is the dating apps aren't going to bail us out. Well, again, there's a connection between the two.

[00:13:25] I've argued that in my piece that we've done, we've had a booklet that we've made available for years and probably will update it again in light of some of the new facts that you've brought even today to the issue of cohabitation because you end up developing habits that aren't good for developing a committed relationship, but the apps themselves are, in a sense, training users in habits that work against commitment, and so we, first of all, aren't having as many get married,

[00:13:55] but then we also have individuals that treat marriage sort of like you have a roommate. You know, if your roommate doesn't work out, you get a new roommate. If your marriage partner doesn't work out, you get a new marriage partner, and so this lack of commitment is the core issue that the church needs to address, isn't it? Yeah, that's absolutely right, and I think a big thing is parents and pastors,

[00:14:19] you know, look, obviously the Apostle Paul is probably our best example of the single Christian, but he was obviously a chaste and celibate man, right? And the reality is that that's not the pathway for most Christians. Most are called to live out Christian marriage, right? And it is God's sign of salvation, right? It's there at the beginning in Genesis.

[00:14:47] It's all of salvation history is pointing to the wedding feast of the Lamb in the book of Revelation, and the nuptial meaning is dripping throughout the scriptures from the minor to the major prophets, right, from Hosea to Isaiah, and you see it. And obviously the Apostle Paul, this is where in that context he's laying out that great mystery of Christ's sacrificial love for his bride, the church is told in espousal love, right?

[00:15:14] So sometimes pastors think, oh, this is not a salvation issue. This is not, you know, folks may not be marrying right now, but they'll eventually marry. And the reality is Dr. Mark Regner's research is showing that in his book, The Future of Christian Marriage, that for every year that marriage is delayed in a nation, the number of people who never marry proportionately goes up, right?

[00:15:42] And so, I mean, we should be super concerned about, if we're concerned, right, about our child's $100 future happiness, if we're obviously serious about the church's teachings on sexual ethics, fornication, we should be concerned about that. For all of these reasons, I think the message is, I think we need to recognize that in the church and as parents, we've got to check ourselves to find out,

[00:16:10] are we subtly allowing the world to form and catechize our youth? And because this idea that we get financially secure first and then go, you know, go have some great life experiences and then date around as much as you can and then maybe settle down when you're 30, right?

[00:16:34] That's a brand new, that's like a, you know, two-decade-old set of guidance, and it's not working out really well, right? That this coincides with the explosive growth and loneliness, mental illness, right? We know that the number of folks' sexual partners is closely associated with higher numbers of mental health diagnoses, right?

[00:17:01] So if we're concerned just from a secular perspective of our kids flourishing, we should be deeply concerned about this, and it just so happens that the secular science is obviously reinforcing our biblical worldview that marriage is that great covenantal sign of salvation. And so I think helping our kids know that, be intentional in your 20s, right?

[00:17:24] You know, in your 20s, if you go to college as a for instance, I spoke to a group of conservative college students through the David Network recently, and I mostly believe in Christians but not all who were there, and I asked them, how many of your parents have told you that you're in college now? It's not a time to get married.

[00:17:48] You should be focusing on your grades, get your career going, get financially established, then look around for a relationship, right? And about 70% of the room raised their hands, right? Amazing. And so oftentimes we need to challenge ourselves as parents, whether, one, we may not be saying anything, in which case the world is forming our young people or the atmosphere around us, right?

[00:18:15] Or we might be repeating something that we think is wise but is actually really foolish, right, in terms of the wisdom of God. Well, let's again talk about how people can connect up. First of all, for the pastors out there, the Barna research that you have provided there, 85% of churches spend nothing on marriage and relationship ministry. Just 28% have something substantive in that area.

[00:18:40] So first of all, going to your website, which we have linked, is an opportunity for maybe a church, a pastor, an elder, a deacon, somebody to say, well, what can we do and what can we learn from you? But for everyone, the section at your church material is great because you say the future of your church starts at the family dinner table. So don't wait for the pastors or the leaders or the Sunday school teachers to take the ball and run with it.

[00:19:07] There's an opportunity for you as a parent or as a grandparent to begin right there. And there are some great ways in which people can connect up with you. So, again, we have a link to your website, which, again, people can follow by going to pointofview.net. They can also, of course, find you on Facebook and X. And this is just a great resource that we also have posted here today.

[00:19:31] And so if you go to the website, pointofview.net, dating apps are treating people like shoes on Amazon. Here's what this means for the church. And more importantly, here's what the church can do. So, J.P., we always appreciate calling upon you. Just another great way to illustrate how the world is trying to catechize us, how the world is trying to push it into its mold. And we need to be transformed by the renewing of our minds in Christ Jesus. So, thank you for being with us today here on Point of View.

[00:20:01] Thank you so much, Kirby. It's always a blast to be with you. Thank you. Well, we will do it again. And, again, find this article because, in some respects, you could hand this off to, say, a young person who right now is on some of these dating apps and they're swiping left or swiping right. Or maybe they're just convinced that, well, you know, you wouldn't buy a car without a test drive. You wouldn't buy a pair of shoes without trying them on. So, obviously, we need to cohabit.

[00:20:29] And, of course, the latest numbers seem to be even higher than the ones that I've used. Of course, I always tend to roll them down a little bit so that people don't overreact to them. But now we're up to about 60% to even as much as 80% increased divorce. Not an 80% divorce rate. Taking the typical divorce rate and adding anywhere from 60% to 80% to that. Do you see how bad it's getting? And, again, that's why we have a booklet that we've made available over the years on cohabitation,

[00:20:57] in large part because we've found that it's a resource of nothing else for pastors who will speak to this issue to members of the congregation. And they go, yeah, but, you know, I still think this is the best thing to do. And, actually, it's about the worst thing you can do. So we are training a whole generation of young people to really never develop the kind of commitment necessary to make marriage flourish. That's one of the things we'll continue to talk about here on Point of View. Let's take a break.

[00:21:26] More coming up right after this. At Point of View, we believe there is power in prayer. And that is why we have relaunched our Pray for America campaign, a series of weekly emails to unite Americans in prayer for our nation. Imagine if hundreds of thousands of Americans started praying intentionally together on a weekly basis.

[00:21:57] You can help make that a reality by subscribing to our Pray for America emails. Just go to pointofview.net and click on the Pray for America banner that's right there on the homepage. Each week you'll receive a brief news update, a specific prayer guide, and a free resource to equip you in further action. We encourage you to not only pray with us each week,

[00:22:24] but to share these prayers and the resources with others in your life. Join the movement today. Visit pointofview.net and click on the banner Pray for America right there at the top. That's pointofview.net. Let's pray together for God to make a difference in our land. Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:53] You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson. As we've been talking about, we're going to focus on UFOs, or sometimes they're called UAPs.

[00:23:20] There is a documentary, and I heard about that years ago when we were at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. My friend Parker Ng, who's the head of Day 4, which is a ministry, an astronomy ministry. We were talking to some people about this documentary, UFOs and God. Well, I have now in my hands, this is an advanced copy, but this book, UFOs and God, will come out in about two weeks.

[00:23:45] So, if you'd like to know more about it, you can go to our website, pointofview.net, or I'm going to also give you some websites in just a minute. But in order to really get into, first of all, the film and, of course, the book, which is 350 pages, we're just giving you an overview today. But we may do an entire one-hour interview or even longer in the future.

[00:24:06] We go to Derek Warfel, who is an individual that earned his bachelor's degree from Princeton University, has a Master of Theology from Dallas Theological Seminary, and then got his MFA in cinema from the University of Southern California. So, Derek, welcome to Point of View. Hey, Kirby, thanks for having me. Can you hear me okay? I can hear you very well. First of all, the documentary's been out for some time. I've been familiar with that.

[00:24:34] So, then when our Derek, who is the producer of the program, said, would you like to talk to you, Derek? I said, yes. And most importantly, because this 350-page book is just chock full of documentation. But talk about the relationship between the documentary and the book, if you might. Sure. I mean, the documentary started first. I mean, it was five years ago that I got together with another producer and said, this subject's too important for us to not do something on.

[00:25:03] And it was supposed to be out like three years ago, but a film usually knew. It took longer. And somewhere along the line, the other producer said, why don't you write a companion book? And I figured, oh, it'll be 60, 70 pages. Sure, I'll just rip it off. And 350 pages later. But I wanted to be thorough. And so, yeah, it's just basically I just saw so much nonsense coming out on the Internet and on TV and talk shows and through the government.

[00:25:32] It just doesn't know how to deal with this. I mean, you know, we wanted to put out something that was a little bit better, more sane, and also from a biblical background as well, but also from a science background.

[00:25:46] And literally, I mean, the narrative today is that these UFOs or beings that people have encountered are really from another planet or galaxy, and they're here to help us to the next level of our human evolution, which just is not possible. I mean, the first place we went was Dr. Hugh Ross. Right. And he just completely debunked the whole idea that this is intergalactic travelers. Yes. It's just impossible.

[00:26:13] I can give you reasons, but I don't know what other questions you want to ask me first. No, I just think, first of all, one of the sections that I thought we might just talk about for a section, the first couple, UFOs are real, they're everywhere, but then they can't be real. Well, no. I mean, I think we have gotten to the point, and I remember even when I joined Pro Ministries 50 years ago, we certainly started doing some things on UFOs,

[00:26:37] because even then you had films about this and everything else, and it might have been possible to say, okay, swamp gas, blimps, whatever, but there are too many individuals, and, of course, you even have clips from Tucker Carlson and others talking about that. So I think we can sort of get beyond that idea, and the argument is that, well, if they're extraterrestrials, let's use the Hugh Ross argument for just a minute.

[00:27:01] Even if you believe that you could travel at the speed of light, and you cannot, and we know basic physics, we are talking about the enormity of the universe, just even the enormity of the galaxy that we are in, the so-called Milky Way galaxy, that really sets that whole argument aside, doesn't it? Oh, yeah. I mean, the closest star to us is Alpha Centauri, which is 4.3 light years away.

[00:27:29] Now, that light year is the speed light travels in a year, which it adds up to 25 trillion miles, okay, if you can conceive that. Traveling at 40,000 miles an hour, which Roger 1 does approximately, it would take 75,000 years to get there and 75,000 years to get back. And no one can travel at the speed of light. And Einstein said, no one can travel faster than the speed of light. I'm sorry, Star Trek. You know, what is it? Warp 9 is just an illusion.

[00:27:57] It's a Hollywood fiction. But even if you can travel at one-tenth the speed of light, there's space dust and debris out there, not just planets and other things, that literally would tear your craft apart. Right. I mean, you'd never get there.

[00:28:12] So the idea, and, you know, the other place that people are talking about is the star system, Zeta Reticulous Star System, which is 39, you know, what is it, a million light years away. And so literally it's just you're not going to get there. You're just basically – and the Milky Way itself is 150,000 light years across.

[00:28:40] That means it takes 150,000 years just for a radio signal to get from one end of our galaxy to the other. And, of course, there's numerable galaxies out there. So the idea that there's people hopping back and forth between our planet and some other planet is just ridiculous. And besides that, you know, one of the people we interviewed was – you can understand our space agencies are monitoring everything in space, satellites, asteroids, everything. They have not found one.

[00:29:10] They don't have been able to track one that has come from outer space into our atmosphere. So they're getting here another way is what I'm saying. And I believe – and more people in the UFO community are starting to say the way they're getting there is they're traveling interdimensionally, not intergalactically. Right. And, you know, basically as Christians, we have an answer for that. Yes, we do. We have – I mean, basically – let me just give an example I use all the time.

[00:29:40] On the night of Jesus' birth, you had shepherds in the fields with their sheep, and they're looking up, and there's stars there. And all of a sudden, there's a whole host of angels singing to glory to God. And then a moment later, they're gone. Well, where did they go? Did they go to Jupiter, Mars, the Zeta Reticula Star System, Alpha Centauri, or the end of the – no.

[00:30:04] They stepped into some other dimension, which is what we would call a spiritual dimension as Christians, or we might call the heavenly dimension. We know that Paul mentioned that he thought he was caught up to a third heaven at one point. Now, the first heaven in the Bible is referred to as the atmosphere, the birds fly through. The second heaven are the celestial heavens. And when the Bible talks about the third heaven, it's talking about literally another dimension that we cannot access.

[00:30:33] And, you know, so basically, when you're talking about that, you're talking about – and it's funny to me that even your best secular scientist who's studying this, someone like Jacques Vallée, who's been doing it for years, spoke before the UN and said, you know, that they want us to believe that they're from another galaxy or planet. But he says they're engineering that belief that they're not. They're probably interdimensional travelers. Right.

[00:31:02] And so what you've got is you've got this whole thing. And we've got answers for that. Well, okay, so you've got interdimensional travelers. How do we know they're not just another dimension, another smart beings that are out there in the universe? Well, the way we know is you listen to what they say and what they do. That defines them. And the Bible talks about, you know, what do people teach and then what do they do? The test of the fruits.

[00:31:29] Jesus says test every spirit, every person, every teacher by the fruits. And you look at these fruits of these beings and they're bad. I mean, it's a bad tree can't produce good fruits. They hurt people. They destroy people. They lie. They use the Galtic methods to communicate. And then, of course, they teach things that are completely anti-biblical. They don't believe in a personal God. Therefore, it's just a God force or something like that.

[00:31:57] So you can't sin against a God force. Therefore, there's no judgment day. Therefore, there's no need for a savior. Therefore, Jesus is not really the son of God and a savior. He's just an ascended guru. And therefore, the means to get better in life is reincarnation. Well, that sounds an awful lot like New Age theology, right? And frankly, that's where it's coming from. And you look at how people today try to communicate with these beings.

[00:32:27] And what they do is they use Ouija boards, which is out of the occult. They go to seances or people who are mediums, which is, again, out of the occult. And they also use transcendental meditation, which is a branch of Hinduism, which believes in 330 million gods. So maybe these are the 330 million evil spirits that are trying to communicate with us.

[00:32:55] In other words, all of this. And Paul himself says that even if I or an angel comes to teach a different gospel, let him be accursed. Let me take a break real quickly, and then we'll come back because at least six of the chapters deal with the angelic realm. Angels are aliens. Aliens in history. Testing the spirits. Under attack. Spiritual warfare. So we'll continue our conversation with Derek Warfel. But again, I wanted you to know about the book.

[00:33:23] It's coming out in about two weeks, a little less than two weeks. Of course, if you want to know about the video, that is there as well. We have, of course, UFOs and God, which you can watch the trailer right now. You can also click on the one UFO and God book. And, of course, all of those links, as well as Facebook, YouTube, and a variety of others. Instagram are all on the website at pointofview.net. We'll continue our conversation right after this.

[00:33:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Right, for a few more minutes, Derek Warfel with us as we talk about, again, UFOs and God. This is a companion book to the documentary UFOs and God. And if you'd like to know more about either of those, it's available on our website at pointofview.net. And, Derek, you certainly mentioned kind of the key verse for this hour, and that is in Galatians 1.8.

[00:34:24] But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. You think about the number of religions and cults that had their beginning from an angel. I believe it was a fallen angel, which we can talk about in a minute. And I think that what we're dealing with right now is sort of a high-tech way that fits into our kind of spiritual mindset,

[00:34:50] which allows these kinds of manifestations to mislead even more. And so, again, there is a real significance to this in terms of the end times and in terms of some of the things that have been taking place. So how should we begin to think about this? And most importantly, how can we use the video that is available, the documentary, and the book? Because this is something which is just coming out.

[00:35:16] I wanted people to know that if they find themselves fascinated by the video and the documentary, there's a book that gives even more of the content. But you wrote this in large part to really warn people about the potential deception, didn't you? Oh, yeah. I mean, this is, I mean, this goes back to the whole beginning.

[00:35:38] You know, before God created the human race, he created another species, which we generally refer to as angels. The Bible calls them sons of God. The Bible calls them watchers or stars. But they are very intelligent, very powerful species. God created to do a lot of his work.

[00:35:59] And at a certain point in the past, one-third of them decided to rebel against God and have been at war with him ever since and against his holy angels and against us. And their goal is to prove that God does not have the right to rule and basically to get rid of us and to take our place. I mean, there's a really good book by Donald Gray Barnhouse called The Invisible War. Oh, yes. That's kind of where I got my motivation from.

[00:36:26] I basically first introduced it by Stanley Toussaint and said, and all of a sudden when I heard that, it literally caused all the things that are happening in the world to fall into place. Why this war is going on and that we are in the middle of it. And everything, all the religions, all the cults, all the philosophies are designed to draw us away from God and to get to follow these fallen angels. And, you know, that's what they are.

[00:36:54] And there's millions of them. I mean, you know, who knows? I mean, the Bible calls it the host. So I think that basically we have to be aware. The verse I would use even more, even Acts 1-8, is basically Ephesians 6-12, where Paul himself picks up and literally pulls back the curtain on eternity and says, We don't struggle against flesh and blood. Mm-hmm. That means it's not the boss at work. It's not the relative we have.

[00:37:24] It's not the guy who honked their horn on the freeway. But against principalities, powers, world forces of darkness, spiritual forces of wickedness in heavenly places. These are four levels of the angelic realm that are at war with us. I mean, think of different colonels, generals, sergeants. I think that what we refer to as demons are kind of the lowest level of fallen angels that attack us. But there's all these other levels.

[00:37:51] The Bible talks about an angel that came to see Daniel on the River Kardashian. He said he was held up by the Prince of Persia. He wasn't held up by a human being. He was held by a very powerful angelic presence. And they are warring against us. I certainly believe you look at some of the people who've warred in the past, like Hitler, definitely were essentially controlled by these beings. That doesn't mean he's not responsible.

[00:38:17] But the point is there is this battle going on. In our daily life, it's the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the boastful pride of life. Them putting thoughts in our life, putting people in our life. Paul talks about, what was it, a thorn in the flesh, other things. But the bottom line is they are there to destroy us. I mean, just like serial killers seem to enjoy hurting and killing people, they enjoy hurting us.

[00:38:44] Jesus says the thief comes to kill, steal, and destroy. And therefore, all his minions are doing the same thing. And so you need to understand when you see the bigger picture of what's going on, all of a sudden you can maybe be a little more patient when you express trials. And it's interesting. Right after Ephesians 6 passage, what follows in Ephesians 6? The armor. The belt of truth.

[00:39:12] The shield of righteousness. The shield of faith. And so on. And basically, I literally, I wasn't planning to write a book on spiritual warfare. But as I got far enough along, I realized I had to include some chapters on that. And then on the normal spiritual warfare, there's the warfare of direct attacks by either Satan or his demonic presences. And the Bible tells us how to deal with that.

[00:39:41] It says, submit to the Lord, resist the devil, and he will flee from you. In other words, because Christ is greater than those beings. Jesus, when he was not only raised from the dead, he was raised up and seated at the right hand of God, far above all rule, all authority, all dominion, every name that's named, not only in this age, but the age to come. Christ is above them all. And guess who's seated beside Christ in the heavens?

[00:40:10] Physically, not physically yet. He's asked, Ephesians 2.6, that literally, we can tell Satan, be gone. We can tell these demons, be gone. There's a great tape online by Josh McDowell called The Authority of the Believer. If you've never heard it or studied it, you ought to. Very good. Yes. But basically, let me give an example of that. Real quick, because we're in our time. Yeah. Okay.

[00:40:37] I mean, you see, one person was being lifted off the bed, abducted by some beings, and in the middle, he didn't know what to do. He was called, Jesus, save me, help me. And immediately, he was dropped back on the bed. Because calling on Jesus' name is what gives us power of these forces. Let me just mention that, again, there are 13 chapters. Of course, 350 pages. And if you think this is all about UFOs, well, certainly the first part is. But the rest is about the angelic realm. Angels are aliens. Aliens and history. Aliens and history.

[00:41:07] Testing the spirits. Under attack. Spiritual warfare. Then last two chapters, UFOs and abductions. And UFOs in the end times. Which will cause you to maybe want to reread 2 Thessalonians a little bit more. But again, each one of these chapters, I might just point out, Derek, at the end, you have some questions to ponder and discuss. So I did want to do kind of an advance of the fact that the book is coming out. We can probably schedule you for a longer interview in the future.

[00:41:36] But for those of you that say, this is the kind of book I'd like to read, I would encourage you to go to the websites that we have for you. Or even our own website there. And that will then allow you to preorder it. So that two weeks from now, when the book comes out, you can start reading. And we'll give you some time to kind of read through it. And then we'll maybe do a full interview with Derek and let you ask any questions that we certainly can let you ask about all of these topics.

[00:42:04] So, Derek, thank you for doing the film and the documentary. Thank you for writing the book. And look forward to the next opportunity. I just mentioned one other thing. I'm going to send you a note with two articles you're free to post up there answering a lot of these things just for you. Thanks. Well, we'll post them as soon as we can. And I'll let you, Derek, talk to our other Derek. And we're just about out of time. So let me real quickly mention that we have covered a lot of topics today.

[00:42:29] And this was just kind of a preview of coming events because the book is not out yet, but it will be. And I want to give you a chance to get the book, read through it. And I'm sure there will be a lot of questions that will come up as a result of that. So let's, if we can, as we wind down today, first of all, as always, thank Megan for her help engineering the program. And Derek, thank you for producing the program and pulling together all of this. We encourage you to be listening tomorrow. It's our Next Generation Roundtable.

[00:42:57] Then, of course, our Friday Roundtable, which we will have with Holly Randall and Dr. Merrill Matthews. Enjoy your day. We look forward to seeing you tomorrow right here on Point of View. Many years ago, they began saying that we live in the information age. Well, today there is so much information coming at us from every direction.

[00:43:23] The hardest thing is to discern which issues are really important and how can I make a positive impact without wasting my time trying to figure out accurate information. Let me give you a suggestion to help with that. Visit pointofview.net. Look at the tabs across the top. Find the one named Viewpoints. Kirby Anderson and others on our team are constantly watching for news to identify those issues that you really need to know about.

[00:43:52] They boil things down in a brief summary and then you can decide if it's something on which you want to learn more and get involved. Again, when you go to pointofview.net, click on Viewpoints, you'll see exactly what I mean. You'll see the issues that we are covering right now. And when you like what you see, I honestly think you will, you can slide on over, enter your email, and get them automatically sent to your inbox each day. That's it. Take a minute now.

[00:44:22] Be informed. Pointofview.net. Click on Viewpoints. Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.