Point of View April 3, 2025 – Hour 2 : Listen Listen Speak

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson. You might remember an interview we did a while back with Jay Kim, I'm holding up the book right now, Analog Christian. That is one of the books he has produced, Analog Church and Analog Christian.

[00:00:28] We're going to be talking about a new book, Listen Listen Speak, Hearing God and Being Heard in a Noisy World. And I think, as we have talked about before, the cacophony of voices, the amount of distractions are really important for us to begin to figure out how to cultivate contentment and maybe develop wisdom and discernment. And also know how to hear God and really be heard in a noisy world.

[00:00:56] Jay Kim, as you might remember, is the lead pastor at Westgate Church in the Silicon Valley area. Also part of the leadership team of the Regeneration Project. I mentioned a few of his other books, Analog Christian and Analog Church. And this one, eight chapters, 200 pages, great material. And once again, welcome back to Point of View, Jay. Thank you so much for having me. It's a joy to be on with you.

[00:01:23] Listen, we can talk about noise or the absence thereof. Apparently, there's a place you can go where you can actually reduce the noise so much. And sometimes I love to get into the radio studio, which has got a lot of padding around it and enjoy the quiet. So that's the closest maybe I can come to something you describe early on. But there are places where you can actually get negative decibels. I'm amazed that such a thing exists. Can you tell us more?

[00:01:53] Yeah, they're called anechoic chambers. The word anechoic just means no echo. And there are these, yeah, highly complex, complicated sort of designed rooms. Up until recently, the quietest room in the world was the anechoic chamber at the Microsoft office at the Redmond, Washington.

[00:02:15] But now actually very close to where I live here in Cupertino, there's a quieter room at the at Apple Park, where Apple makes all of their products. Yeah, the anechoic chamber, I mean, they get down to negative decibels, which is wild. The Microsoft office at Redmond, it gets down to negative 20 decibels. And at that point, you just begin to lose orientation. You can hear the sound of your own heart beating.

[00:02:43] It's a surreal experience, to be sure. But again, the point you're making is, and I think one of the things that I would also agree with, is that this can be not only disorienting, but it actually illustrates again that we've almost gotten to the point where we can't even imagine what it would be like to be without sound.

[00:03:05] Now, again, borrowing from your previous book, one of the quickest ways to raise anxiety among sometimes the youngest generation is take away their phone and tell them to exist with maybe the next hour without their phone. And at a time when we are seeing such a remarkable amount of noise, talking, chatter, all sorts of things, that's really what your book is calling for us to be.

[00:03:31] First of all, to be still and know that I'm God, to begin to be willing to hear God's voice, but also to be willing to hear others. And that seems to be a real problem, which you've identified in almost every one of your books. Yeah, I mean, we absolutely live in a noisy world. That's literally true, but I think it's exponentially more true on a mental, emotional, and most importantly, spiritual level.

[00:03:59] And we're ill, we're just unaccustomed to quiet and to silence. But biblically speaking, when you read the scriptures, it seems as though God most often speaks in the quiet. He most often speaks in the gentle whisper. And so if we really want to hear God, we're going to have to learn how to quiet the noise in our lives.

[00:04:25] And in turn, that will allow us to truly hear others more deeply. And that's actually the path to being heard by others. Right. Well, since you mentioned gentle whisper, let's go to 1 Kings 19. And that is Elijah, the prophet. First of all, he's had quite a confrontation on Mount Carmel. And then he's looking for God's voice. But he doesn't find it in all the places where you would expect to find it. So let me let you finish the story.

[00:04:55] Yeah. Yeah. Elijah's running for his life. And he's desperate to hear from God. And there's this definitive display of God's authority and power just a few moments before in Elijah's life. And then the queen is after him. So he's running. He's in fear. He runs off to the mountains. And the story tells us there's a giant wind. And then there's an earthquake.

[00:05:25] There's a firestorm. But the story says the Lord was not in any of those things. And after all of that came a gentle whisper. And that's how God speaks. God speaks to Elijah in a gentle whisper. And I think that's how he speaks to us most of the time today. Well, again, your book is really divided into eight chapters. Four on listen. Four on speaking.

[00:05:52] And it does seem to me that that, I think, illustrates, again, the principle. But, again, I love the fact that you call it listen, listen, speak. You know, because we are supposed to be quick to what? Listen and slow to speak. So there's a sense in which you're trying to emphasize that as well. But if you can, maybe help us understand this kind of concept here of finding God's voice in the midst of personalities.

[00:06:19] And you quote from an individual that we've quoted here before, Robert Bella, and his book, The Habits of the Heart. But it does seem to me that we need to begin to figure out, in the midst of all these personalities, how to hear God's voice. Yeah. Yeah. Robert Bella, 40-year-old book called Habits of the Heart, talks about he's the one that sort of coined the phrase expressive individualism.

[00:06:44] He describes it as essentially, you know, a self that is not defined by our relationships, but rather by our own capacity to sort of forge our own way. And I don't think it's an accident that all of the data tells us in this world of expressive individualism, we are lonelier and more isolated, more depressed than we've ever been because human beings were made for relationship. And we need to recapture that.

[00:07:13] We also don't trust each other. And you quote from Samuel Huntington. I usually quote from his book as we talk about Islam. I've actually actually been on a podium with him in some various situations. But he talks about that for about every six years, so American society and culture are upended by what he calls creedal passion or a distrust of organized power.

[00:07:38] And I would think that that would be one of the biggest issues you earlier talked about when we all watched, at least those of us who are older, the various broadcasters talking about what happened on September 11th, 2001. I think everybody believed what we were being told. Now, if somebody says something on a TV show, says something on maybe a podcast or on an Internet website, there's a lot of skepticism.

[00:08:07] So the other part of this is not only this issue of expressive individualism, but just the kind of the sense that I can't trust anything, not even what I hear on television or in the radio, even what we're talking about right now. Can't trust what I'm reading. And that's a real challenge for us as well. So let's take a break. We'll continue our conversation today as we're talking with Jay Kim. The book is entitled Listen, Listen, Speak. It came out about a year ago.

[00:08:36] But if you have any difficulty finding it, we have a link so you can get it at Hardback or Kindle. And we'll continue our conversation with him right after this. This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] Meryl Matthews was in my radio studio recently to make the case that the axis of evil is now bigger, bolder and more evil than 20 years ago. Back in 2002, President George W. Bush identified three countries during the State of the Union address that he designated as the axis of evil. Those countries were Iraq, Iran and North Korea. Meryl Matthews suggested that we now identify the countries that should be listed as part of the axis of evil.

[00:09:28] 20 years ago, these three countries were relatively small, failed states. His current list of countries is composed of countries that are much stronger and more dangerous. China, for example, is the world's second largest economy and brings numerous financial and industrial resources to the network. Both China and Russia have huge natural resources. And if you look at those countries, along with other countries aligned with one or both, we're talking about a landmass that includes most of Asia.

[00:09:54] And their proximity to each other allows them to expand trade and even allows the movement of banned or sanctioned products like weapons and drugs. Not only do these countries have stronger economies, but they also are dedicated to expanding their territory. Neither Russia nor China are content with their borders. Russia is expanding through war in the case of Ukraine. China is threatening aggression in the case of Taiwan. China has already absorbed Hong Kong and is now plotting how it will be able to take Taiwan.

[00:10:21] They've also built islands in the South China Sea that can be forward military bases. And it's worth mentioning that China has the largest army in the world and the largest navy in the world. 20 years ago, the axis of evil was dangerous. Today, our world is more dangerous than ever before. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Inflation, go to viewpoints.info slash inflation. That's viewpoints.info slash inflation. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back once again with Jay Kim, and again, he is the lead pastor at Westgate Church. We do have a link to the website, jkimthinks.com. You can find that there. This book, Listen, Listen, Speak, came out about a year ago.

[00:11:14] But if you have any difficulty, find it in your local bookstore. We have information about it so that you can get it as well. And, Jay, we talked about one issue, and that is this lack of trust. The other is panic. And you are honest enough to share about the fact that when COVID broke out in March of 2020, you're lying in bed, wide awake, doom scrolling through Twitter. But all of a sudden, you're really starting to get a panic attack, which is not typical for you.

[00:11:43] And I guess what we need to do is by the end of the chapter, you talk about the fact that there's no reason to fear, no reason to be anxious, no reason to rage. But you do have a diagram that I think is very helpful to understand how sometimes panic and maybe even overreaction actually leads to rage. And we need to come back to prayer and reflection and the rest.

[00:12:09] So can you take us through that because both the diagrams and your own personal experience are kind of illustrated of what we'll be talking about today? Yeah, I mean, I think in a sort of personality-driven media landscape where it's not necessarily those who are most thoughtful or most patient or most tempered who are heard the clearest and loudest.

[00:12:34] It's actually those who are the loudest, those who are screaming and vitriolic, those who have the, you know, sort of sound bites and the little, you know, clickbait-type clicks, videos and whatnot. They're the ones that get the most attention. And I think when we consume that sort of media, that sort of media is designed to consume us. So we don't just consume, we become consumed. Yes. All consumed.

[00:13:04] And then it leads to panic. You know, that's the whole idea behind, for example, doom scrolling. You just can't stop. And the panic sort of compounds. And then, you know, it's sort of this animalistic, primitive thing within every human being. When you are feeling at risk or in danger, you react. And that reactivity eventually becomes rage.

[00:13:28] And the only way to suppress that rage or to satisfy the rage is to consume some more. And then you just find yourself in this vicious endless cycle. So I think, you know, for followers of Jesus, we need to slow down and recalibrate. And instead of consuming a lot of content, I think we need to allow the Spirit of God to settle us in such a way that he has our hearts and minds.

[00:13:58] And I think that begins with prayer, prayer and observation, prayerful observation, as well as prayer and reflection. And when we do that, when we pray and observe, pray and reflect deeply, it allows us not to react, but to actually respond in love and with wisdom. And I think that shift is going to matter more and more in the coming years. Well, again, I remember you from the previous book talking about the apps that we use are actually using us.

[00:14:29] And so in some respects, we think we control social media, but in many ways, social media controls us. And so some really important issues and, again, some diagrams in here that I think people might want to look at and think about. How do we get from the anxiety and panic to rage and how to kind of counteract that? But there's another one, and that gets us into your other chapter, where you're talking about uncertainty, because we want everything certain.

[00:14:56] And, of course, as an illustration, we have, of course, Jesus actually instructs his disciples on how to pray. Give us today our daily bread. But really what we want is give us today our annual bread. Give us today our long-term bread. Give us today our retirement bread. And there's a sense in which right now, as we've been talking about even before you came on the air, the uncertainty of tariffs,

[00:15:24] some of the uncertainty of what I call the DDT, whether it is doge or deportation or tariffs, there's just a lot of uncertainty. And so in some respects, though, you wrote the book a year ago, we probably need it now more than we did at every time, because there is just a great deal of uncertainty. The markets are uncertain. Sometimes people aren't giving to ministry because of uncertainty. And, again, you have a chapter that addresses that issue as well.

[00:15:52] Yeah, I mean, uncertainty, I think we're always surprised when things feel uncertain. But that's because we've sort of bought into the myth of control. We live most of our lives believing that we have and are in much more control than we actually are. The reality is every breath you take is a gift from God, and your next breath is not guaranteed.

[00:16:17] And so I think it matters a great deal for Christians to live with a sober awareness that we have far less control than we think we have. But one of the reasons why we sort of find ourselves so uncertain is because, again, we consume so much news media, and that news media ends up consuming us. Again, the whole concept of doom scrolling. And I think, you know, typically we're consuming news media.

[00:16:45] That's kind of the crux of our sort of media diet. And then we sprinkle in a little bit of scripture. And I think if we want to combat uncertainty or the feeling of uncertainty and anxiety in our lives, we need to reverse those things. We need to feast on scripture, which is always certain. It's steady and sure. It tells us where the human story is headed with certainty.

[00:17:12] And then we need just like moderate news intake, you know, sprinkling in information about what's happening around the world, but looking at it through the lens of the biblical story that there's a good God who made a good world and it all went wrong. But that good God sent Jesus to live, die, and come back to life, and that Jesus is returning someday, and he's going to make all wrong things right. That is certain. And so we can look at whatever's happening in the world through that lens.

[00:17:41] One other thing you talk about is that we live in this world of influencers, and yet you take us to, of course, the story of John the Baptist. And you've got quite a diagram here about increase and decrease because John the Baptist made it very clear that, indeed, I must decrease, that he might increase. But there is sort of, if you will, a leadership principle there.

[00:18:08] There is a humility principle there that we need to apply as well when we're surrounded by influencers, and sometimes we seek to be influencers as well. Yeah, I love the words from the writer Henry Nowen. He's got this great quote. He says that the way of the Christian leader is not the way of upward mobility, in which our world has invested so much, but the way of downward mobility ending on the cross.

[00:18:36] And the diagram you're talking about in my book is basically this sort of upside-down triangle where increase leads you downward, and it's actually decrease that leads you upward. That's how it works in the kingdom of God. That's why theologians call it the upside-down kingdom of God. Right. It's why Jesus didn't come and defeat death by riding in on a mighty stallion and defeating the Roman Empire.

[00:19:04] Instead, he defeats sin and death by dying on a Roman cross. The sort of inversion of everything that the world tells us is meaningful and matters. And so, again, this is very hard to do, but Christians have to embrace the upside-down kingdom of God. That influence looks very different in God's kingdom than it does in the world. Well, one other issue, of course, you talk about is screaming to belong and point out the fact that if you look at the charts,

[00:19:33] and we've talked about this before with Jonathan Haidt and others, the number of teenagers who express loneliness at school has always been somewhat high, but it really just took off after about 2012 for various reasons, the most significant one being social media. And, again, there is a sense of loneliness and a need to belong, and that's another element that you talk about in that first section about listening.

[00:20:04] Yeah, I mean, the data is, to me, it strikes me as undeniable at this point that we are lonelier than ever. You know, another thing I do in the book is briefly mention Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Abraham Maslow is a mid-20th century psychologist. If you look at his hierarchy of needs, it's basically what do humans need to actually live a meaningful life. At the very bottom of the pyramid is, like, food, water, air.

[00:20:34] You know, if you don't have those things, nothing else really matters. If you can't breathe, then, you know, asking yourself, what is the meaning of my life is not, you know, it's not pertinent at that point. You're just trying to breathe. And then after that, it's, you know, shelter and good health and employment. Do I have a way to make a living? But then after that, the very next thing human beings need is belonging. Belonging. Meaningful connection. Yes.

[00:20:58] And, again, you know, the work of Jonathan Haidt and others reveals to us belonging is missing in the sort of cultural experience today. So all of that to say it's very hard to live. It's very hard to be human in the digital age. We're going to take a break. We have only covered half of the book, and we're going to get into the next part. It's all part of Listen, Listen, Speak by Jay Kim. Stay tuned. We'll have more right after this.

[00:21:25] It was not that long ago that censorship appeared to be almost inevitable. Free speech was being attacked and strangled in many places. And some of us wondered if this was the end. But now, many feel a new sense of hope, a chance for a fresh dawn. Let me caution you. Now is not the time to relax.

[00:21:54] It's a time to press forward, to use this fresh opportunity to proclaim and learn how to apply truth to current issues. By the fact you're here, listening right now, that tells me that you recognize the vital role Point of View plays as a voice of truth. For more than 50 years, we've informed and equipped people who have made a real difference.

[00:22:17] And when you give to Point of View today, you breathe life into what can be a new golden era for the truth. Please, take a moment right now and invest in truth. Visit pointofview.net or give it 1-800-347-5151. That's pointofview.net. Click in now or call 1-800-347-5151.

[00:22:47] Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson. Continuing our conversation today with Pastor Jay Kim, lead pastor at Westgate Church.

[00:23:17] But I might also mention, Jay, that you have a website that we are actually posting and encouraging people to visit. It says jaykimthinks.com. There's a place where people can find out about your books, your writing, your speaking, and your podcasts. So talk what's available there because this is a book which I would think most people would want to read through individually, but they might want to get some more information. Or if somebody would want to teach this in a Sunday school class or a life group,

[00:23:48] perhaps they can benefit from some of the other resources on your website. So what is there when people find it? Yeah. If you go to jaykimthinks.com, there's several books that I've written over the years, Analog Christian, Analog Church, a study on Colossians, several other things. I also do some writing a little bit on the side in different publications so you can access all of that as well as some speaking clips

[00:24:14] and, you know, ways to reach out to me if there's a way that I can be helpful to you. I also host a podcast called The Digital Examine for InterVarsity Press. Those are really fun conversations I get to have. So you can access all of that and some other work that I've created over the years. You can find all that on the website. Well, again, we're continuing our conversation today talking about listen, listen, speak, and we're in the speaking section.

[00:24:41] First section there talking about speaking the good news, and you raise a very good point, and that is it used to be that communication was as fast as the transportation that we had. For a long time it was by foot and then by horse, but by the time we get to things like the telegraph, the telephone, radio, television, and the Internet, and I think it's interesting that you actually call your website,

[00:25:04] J. Kim Thinks Analog Thoughts on Digital Pages because now we are in this digital world. So the mode of communication has changed, but in all sorts of other ways, the gospel remains and the gospel is the timeless message, even though we have to communicate it in a timely culture, don't we? Yeah, we really do. I mean, the word gospel itself comes from the Greek word euangelion,

[00:25:34] which the Christians did not invent. It was a common word at the time of Christ. It was a political word, actually, used in the Roman Empire to talk about the good news of Caesar, the emperor of Rome. So every time Rome would conquer a new land, you know, a herald would blow a trumpet and say, behold the gospel or the good news, the euangelion of Caesar, and then it would be some news about Rome conquering a new land.

[00:26:02] And, you know, what's interesting is, sure, maybe that's good news for the rich and powerful at the time, but that was actually terrible news for the citizens of the land that had just been conquered. And so the Christians sort of co-opt that word and they say, no, there's actually really true good news, and it's good news for the whole world. It's good news for rich and poor. And it's the good news that anybody who says yes to Jesus, gives their life to Christ,

[00:26:30] pledges their allegiance to Jesus as king, can have life and life to the full, both now and into eternity. And that news has not changed. So in a bad news world, Christians have not just good news, but the best news ever. And it is imperative that we share that news. You also take us to Acts 17, Mars Hill. We're going to be taking a group to Greece, and one of the places we will go, of course, is to where Mars Hill is in Athens.

[00:26:57] And that was for the Greek god of war, and it's a rocky outcropping, and always enjoyed speaking from the top of it and in front of it. But here Paul presents the gospel, but it doesn't go quite as well as you might think. He's, first of all, deeply distressed. Then he uses reason. And in some respects, some were willing to hear him, but others were not. And it just sort of reminds us of what the gospel is. It's kind of face-to-face.

[00:27:26] And then you work your way to Asbury University in Kentucky, where I think we've talked about on many occasions, you have what looked like a pretty spontaneous outpouring of the Holy Spirit that for over a week, students, faculty, all sorts of visitors come together to worship, pray, and seek God together. So again, we can see that this was spirit-led. It's corporate confession.

[00:27:55] It's not gimmicky. And unfortunately, there's a lot of celebrity culture still. But I think it illustrates what we're talking about in terms of speaking the gospel. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, going back to Mars Hill, the story tells us that there's a reason why Paul preaches the gospel there. And then there's a way he preaches the gospel. First, as you mentioned, he's distressed. So we don't preach the gospel because we're trying to win.

[00:28:24] We don't preach the gospel because we're trying to destroy our enemies. We're preaching the gospel because we see the pain and sin and brokenness of our world, and we want to say, there is good news for you. And then when we preach that gospel, there's a way we do it. Paul doesn't yell and scream and tell everybody why they're wrong, although he does tell them why they're wrong. He does so in a reasonable way.

[00:28:51] The story tells us that he reasons with people, that he respects them and honors them, and he speaks in a way that can actually be heard. It says that he preaches the good news. What's interesting is that word, preaching, is actually the verb form of euangelion, gospel. So quite literally, Paul is gospel-ing. And that's what we're called to do.

[00:29:15] And when I think about Asbury and what happened there, all these distinctive sort of things that happened, but first, you know, it seems like everybody who was there says there was so much confession and repentance. So it wasn't this, like, big hype machine, feel good, God loves you no matter what you do, no matter what you think. It's like, no, no, no, no. There was an acknowledgment of all that is wrong in me and in our world. They named it. They confessed it. They repented of it.

[00:29:45] Then, as you said, there was no gimmickry. There was no hype. There wasn't Christian celebrities. It's interesting. There are all these stories. Christian celebrities actually did descend on Asbury, and some of them actually asked the leaders, hey, can I get on the mic and share a few thoughts? And I'm so grateful that the leaders of Asbury said no. And in their words, they said, man, we want what's happening here to remain nameless and faceless.

[00:30:14] In other words, the only name that's going to be lifted high here is the name of Jesus, no celebrity. And I just think that's so powerful. That's what the gospel looks like at its finest. It's not about Christian celebrity. It's not about name brand. It's not about winning. It's not about destroying our theological or ethical enemies. It's about naming what is broken in us and in our world. It's about confession, repentance, and lifting the name of Jesus high. So good.

[00:30:44] One of your chapters is also, again, not only what we speak but how we speak, and that is to speak biblically. And you talk about this idea of the offense of scripture, but also the offense of authority, and just really, in a sense, another diagram and chart in terms of how we kind of are dealing with the expanded influence of media, also the increase in influence of technology, and kind of a deepening influence of autonomy.

[00:31:13] So it does seem to me that there are a number of forces pulling against us. Can you kind of explain that to us? Yeah, this whole concept of authority has been removed from culture today. You know, it kind of goes back to what we talked about earlier with Robert Bella, you know, expressive individualism. We are a people who want to write our own stories. We want to be the authors of our own stories. And so we remove this concept of authority.

[00:31:43] And this is in large part due to the influence of media, which sort of continues to fuel and propel this individualism. Certainly the influence of technology. I mean, you think about social media. We've already talked about this, how lonely we are because social media is this personalized, curated sort of experience.

[00:32:05] And then overall, just the general sort of deepening influence of autonomy that nobody should tell me what to do or how to be or who to be or how to live. You know, I am, again, the author of my own story. And this has left us in a critical place. Like, we don't have any ground to stand on because authority has been moved.

[00:32:31] So there isn't any sort of foundational reality or truth or authority figure that tells us what is actually right, what's actually wrong, what's actually good, what's actually not so good for us. And, you know, again, Christians have ground to stand on, that our allegiance is to Christ alone, that the scriptures, God-breathed, active and alive, are speaking to us today,

[00:32:59] that the scriptures are the authoritative word of God, and they tell us how to live and how to flourish as human beings. And I think that's a gift we can offer a world that's in desperate need. Let's take a break. We've talked about why we speak, how we speak, and we'll come back where we speak. And just some final comments are all part of this book, Listen, Listen, Speak. And, again, if you are looking for information about that, we have a link to the book.

[00:33:24] We have a link to, of course, J. Kim and all sorts of other resources that you might want to find available. And they're all at our website, pointofview.net. Let's take a break. We'll come back a little bit more about Listen, Listen, Speak right after this.

[00:33:55] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back for a few more minutes as we talk about Listen, Listen, Speak, hearing God and being heard in a noisy world. And I thought we would get to at least this section on where we speak, speaking in a place, in a placeless age. Some of this comes back to, I was remembering in your book, Analog Christian, where you talked about the need for contentment, resilience, but also the need for wisdom.

[00:34:24] And it does seem to me that you're sort of here trying to take us through, are there certain things that need to be said? Why do I want to say what I want to say really right now? And, again, what maybe I'm missing? And the most important one, can I say it in such a way that draws other people in? There is so often a tendency, especially the nature of social media, to react quickly, to kind of win the argument.

[00:34:52] And there is a sense in which we should be attractive to individuals. And, as you point out, saying things everywhere sometimes is nowhere. So help us out, because that's another very important issue of speaking, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, you know, digital technology has created this sort of detachment. I can pull out this little black box from my back pocket.

[00:35:19] I can spend a minute or two typing with my thumbs. And then I can just say what it is I want to say out into the digital ether where, you know, hundreds, maybe thousands, maybe tens of thousands of people will hear me, or so I think. But the reality is when we do that, we're just sort of speaking out into, yeah, like the digital ether, you know?

[00:35:45] So I think we need to begin by learning to speak lovingly and truthfully right here. And by right here, I mean real people in real places in our very real lives. And so when we do that and as we do that, we've got to ask the question, you know, why do I want to say what I want to say, like really?

[00:36:11] And before you even say it, it's a moment to pause and reflect internally. Like right here inside of me, why is it that I feel this insatiable need to say what it is I'm going to say? And once we have a solid sense for why, that gives us a chance then to speak out into the world in a way that feels godly and tempered and loving and honest.

[00:36:38] And I think we could use more of that in our day and age. One of the things you also talk about in this idea of neighborhood boundaries is, you know, you have all sorts of concentric circles around you. You have the smallest circle, which is your intimate, and that certainly could be your wife and your two children there in Silicon Valley. Your personal, those would be other people and your staff and even people in the church. Social, which would be maybe people that don't know you as well,

[00:37:06] and then public, people that you run into as well. And it does seem to me that, as you have pointed out, social media has kind of changed some of those circles in ways that aren't always healthy. And we need to sort of come back and ask a question that you have an individual asking Jesus, and that is, who is my neighbor? Yeah.

[00:37:32] You know, the question is interesting because that's the question being asked of Jesus, and it's the famous story where Jesus responds by telling the Good Samaritan parable. But if you pay careful attention to the way Jesus tells that parable, you realize at the end his response to the original question, who is my neighbor, his response is to turn the question around. And he instead asks a question,

[00:38:01] and he says, who was the good neighbor to the man lying on the side of the road? And, of course, in the Good Samaritan story, it happens to be the Samaritan, which would have broken all of the cultural boundaries of the day. Samaritans and Jews were sworn enemies. You know, their hostilities ran extremely deep, and it extended back hundreds of years, nearly a thousand years. They hated each other. And so in this story,

[00:38:31] for a Samaritan to help a Jew, and then to be asked the question, who was the good neighbor in this story? And then to have to say, well, I guess it was the Samaritan, it turns the question around. Rather than, who is my neighbor that I'm supposed to love? Really, the question God is asking of us is, to whom can you be a loving neighbor? And the answer to that question is,

[00:39:00] that there are no boundary lines to the answer. That you are called, you and I as Christians are called to be a good neighbor to any and all, who we encounter in this life. And as you pointed, becoming a good neighbor takes precedent over seeking a good neighbor. And it is interesting that sometimes in counseling, somebody says, I'm really depressed, I'm lonely, really struggling. I really need somebody to care for me. And the counselor almost always will say, well, no,

[00:39:29] you need to go out and do something nice for someone else. You need to go out and minister to someone else. And oftentimes the first reaction is, no, no, you don't understand. I need, no, no, you don't understand. By helping another, in some respects, you may help yourself, but the precedent there. And it's certainly in scripture is becoming a good neighbor is more important and takes precedent over seeking and finding a good neighbor.

[00:39:55] And that's something that gives all of us freedom to go out there and make more friends. Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, it's again in an age of absolute loneliness, the way of Jesus does what the way of Jesus always does, which is to help us live more fully into our lives and to experience life and life to the full.

[00:40:18] So it's not an accident that the antidote to the problems we face today is all found in the teachings of Jesus. If we just follow the blueprint that he laid out for us, we'll experience life and life to the full the way he promised. How would people be able to use this book? It seems to me that any person just kind of reading through this would benefit. But again, this could be something that you've taught in your own church and it could be something that could be taught in a small group. So can you give us some ideas?

[00:40:49] Yeah, absolutely. The book is broken down in such a way that it can be used fairly straightforward as a teaching series. It can be used as a, I intentionally wrote it in a way that the book could be used as a group study where you can get together with some friends or your small group, community group, life group, and study it together chapter by chapter.

[00:41:13] I think what it'll do is draw out of you the need for honest, sober assessment of the sort of life you are living and the sort of life that God might have for you. So yeah, teaching series, a book discussion group. I think it could be used in small groups as well. So if I can personally be of help to you in any way, then you just go to my website again and my email is there. Feel free to reach out. We'll be happy to chat with you.

[00:41:41] Website again is jkimthinks.com and you'll find all sorts of information about his books, his writing, his speaking podcast, all sorts of resources that you might want to find there. And again, as we've mentioned, some of these other books, Analog Church and Analog Christian. And you might even want to go back and find some of the interviews we've done with him in the past, especially on the Analog Christian book. And then of course, most recently now today on Listen, Listen, Speak. So Pastor Jay Kim,

[00:42:08] thank you for writing these books and thank you for joining us today here on Point of View. Thank you so much for having me. Let's, if we can, just before we say goodbye for today, recognize that tomorrow is our Friday weekend edition and we have Pennedexter and Dr. Merrill Matthews. We already have put together some of the articles. Some of which, of course, relate to tariffs. That's kind of in the news, but there are a variety of other topics we will get into as well, which I think you'll find helpful.

[00:42:35] So all of those resources will be available to you. The resources for today, some of the ones I've quoted from, you can simply go to the website pointofview.net. You will find them there. As we mentioned before, of course, my Viewpoints commentary about the axis of evil, our take action item, and of course, our banner anchored to truth, which we've been talking about for some time here on Point of View. I hope that this has been of interest to you. I hope you might want to listen to some of it again. And I want to thank Megan for her help engineering the program. Steve,

[00:43:05] thank you for producing the program. We'll see you tomorrow right here on our weekend edition on Point of View. At Point of View, we believe there is power in prayer. And that is why we have relaunched our Pray for America campaign, a series of weekly emails to unite Americans in prayer for our nation. Imagine if hundreds of thousands of Americans started praying intentionally together on a weekly basis.

[00:43:34] You can help make that a reality by subscribing to our Pray for America emails. Just go to pointofview.net and click on the Pray for America banner that's right there on the homepage. Each week you'll receive a brief news update, a specific prayer guide, and a free resource to equip you in further action. We encourage you to not only pray with us each week,

[00:44:03] but to share these prayers and the resources with others in your life. Join the movement today. Visit pointofview.net and click on the banner Pray for America right there at the top. That's pointofview.net. Let's pray together for God to make a difference in our land. Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.