Point of View April 24, 2024 : Ghosted: An American Story, New Opinions on the Abortion Issue

[00:00:00] Music

[00:00:07] This is Point of View

[00:00:10] Music

[00:00:18] And now, Kirby Anderson.

[00:00:20] Thank you for joining me. It is the Wednesday edition of Point of View and the first hour we're going to spend some time talking with Nancy French about her new book and next hour we'll have Marjorie Danenfelser with us for about a half hour.

[00:00:30] Again, President of the Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America will be talking about some of the pro-life issues and then we'll get back to some issues in the news.

[00:00:39] Some of the things we talked about yesterday but we have a lot more protesters at Columbia University want Hamas to burn Tel Aviv to the ground at NYPD.

[00:00:49] Interestingly enough, the New York students are saying the NYPD should go to hell and of course we have some incredible protests and other issues.

[00:00:58] So I guess I have to bring out my booklet again on anti-Semitism because a lot of that is happening on college campuses today.

[00:01:05] First hour though we're going to spend some time talking with Nancy French, five time New York Times bestselling author, individual who has written this book called Ghosted.

[00:01:15] An American story came out just about a week ago. It is published by her friends Ed Zondervin. I think you will appreciate that.

[00:01:22] She is ghost written for many prominent individuals and also has been an investigative journalist looking into spiritual and even sexual abuse at a Christian camp.

[00:01:34] So a lot to cover here and Nancy, welcome to Point of View.

[00:01:38] Hi, thanks for having me.

[00:01:40] Let's if we can maybe start with your original story. You talk about the fact that your home was actually built on the New Madrid geological fault, one of the most active faults in the center part of the United States.

[00:01:55] While we're talking about anti-Semitism grew up up around coal mines and guns but also rednecks and even some individuals that were distant relatives that were part of the KKK.

[00:02:09] You know, even as you were saying that it just dawned on me right now at 49 years old that I say New Madrid instead of Madrid because I grew up in Paris, Tennessee, which is not as exciting as the Paris France and near all of these little towns that are named after their European counterparts.

[00:02:31] And just now I realized I mispronounced that. Anyway, thanks for having me on the show.

[00:02:36] So yeah, I grew up in rural Tennessee and my family of origin is from Monnegal Mountain. And yeah, we just grew up like a lot of people did but maybe a little bit more dramatic with some of the circumstances that started my life on this earth.

[00:03:00] And so it started me in a pretty dramatic path and that dramatic path has kept going.

[00:03:05] Well, and again, I will warn people that you have had quite a number of very traumatic incidents in your life.

[00:03:13] And of course there's that all famous quote that says to know people well as to know their tragedy and you know when we're talking about individuals threatening you, putting their hands around your neck of people dying, all sorts of other issues.

[00:03:28] Of course all sorts of threats that happened more recently.

[00:03:32] I just want people to recognize that you could look at your picture, a picture of what you look like and the picture which I think other people have seen especially if they've seen your book that is out in print and say well she must have just come from this idyllic life and an easy life.

[00:03:48] And yet that first chapter is just full of what you call rough and ready and hard scrabble kind of activity that you came from.

[00:03:57] Right. The first four chapters are pretty intense probably with a lot of material that you'd probably wouldn't expect coming from me.

[00:04:08] But I should say Kirby that I love my author picture. I'm looking great in it but since I wrote the book I've been diagnosed with cancer. I'm as bald as an eagle.

[00:04:19] I know. I've seen that picture. If you go to your website you can see that picture there where you don't look quite the same. I have seen that and people can check that out themselves.

[00:04:29] Yes.

[00:04:30] Yes. So the drama of my life has not abated since I stopped writing the book but the good news is that God's in control of all of it.

[00:04:41] You know we were talking with a guest yesterday and he opened his book talking about the kindness of God but he tells the story.

[00:04:48] This one individual that just one tragedy after another one difficulty after another and eventually dies of cancer.

[00:04:55] Well that's not you necessarily but as you read to this book I mean each time you turn a page you go oh not more and yet that is exactly what you've been through.

[00:05:04] But let's get to the point that maybe has really been a defining part of your life and that is Vacation Bible School.

[00:05:13] That should be something that would be very positive but yet I think now that has been something that has affected your life all the way up to where you are today hasn't it.

[00:05:25] Right I was the type of person who grew up going to church three times a week love church love Vacation Bible School love the little cookies that you put on your pinkies that you can eat around and make a ring out of like I love the whole thing but when I was 12 my Vacation Bible

[00:05:40] School teacher who was about 10 years older than me who was also a preacher he yet sexually abused me and that put me on a bad path because it sort of took me out of my little nest my spiritual nest where my church with a safe place and it may church feel unsafe because it was unsafe

[00:06:00] and it sort of messed my relationship with God as you might imagine.

[00:06:04] Well again we've talked about this before on the program what matter of fact various individuals that have been sexually abused we've talked about domestic abuse verbal abuse and sexual abuse and the rest but it does I think illustrate the fact that once you've either come from a home where you are treated poorly or where you have had some kind of abuse it affects the way in which you perceive yourself

[00:06:28] the way you perceive other men we'll talk a little bit later about how David maybe helped heal some of that but speak to that issue for just a minute because that was one of those things early on in your book that I thought was maybe a life lesson that we can pass on to others that even though you may have been a victim of abuse whatever that might be

[00:06:51] that doesn't have to mark you for the rest of your life if indeed you are willing to address that but sometimes it's difficult because up until recently a lot of people would just simply want to turn a blind eye to it.

[00:07:02] Yeah it's really hard man it's because you know if you're a victim of childhood sexual abuse it takes decades to sort of come to terms with that.

[00:07:13] I think the average age of coming out on that issue is close to 50 if you were abused as a kid so it's very difficult.

[00:07:22] There's a lot of decades between your abuse and when you can start to heal if you follow those statistics where you might make a lot of bad decisions but yes that's what happened to me.

[00:07:35] I'm not speaking for other people but once I was abused it sort of messed me up it messed up my theology it messed up the way I perceived guys I dated the wrong people and so it just set me on a bad path.

[00:07:49] I'm not talking about the dogs with God or with the church until I met David French.

[00:07:58] You know so I met him when I was in college and he talked to me about God in a way that was fresh and new in a way that I could hear if that makes sense.

[00:08:09] It was really helpful he used C.S. Lewis to talk to me about the existence of God and whether or not I believed in God he used the Lord Lunatic or liar sort of setup to talk to me about that.

[00:08:25] He talked to me about that even though I was wearing black fingernail polish and smoking clothes, cigarettes and I thought I was an atheist.

[00:08:34] When he asked me if I thought Jesus was the Lord Lunatic or liar I could not say that he did anything but the Lord.

[00:08:56] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] Most left-leaning economists cannot understand why American consumers are complaining when many economic indicators are positive.

[00:09:09] One of those individuals is Paul Krugman, a Nobel Prize winning columnist for the New York Times.

[00:09:15] He argued in a previous column that inflation was not a problem and used his recent trip to the grocery store to prove it.

[00:09:21] He says, now I go grocery shopping by myself and I'm occasionally startled by the total at the cash register although that's usually because I wasn't factoring in the price of that bottle of scotch I picked up along with meat and vegetables.

[00:09:34] He did admit that he had no idea what he paid for the same groceries a few years ago.

[00:09:38] Michael Powell writing in The Atlantic uses that story to illustrate the growing chasm between liberal economists and American consumers.

[00:09:46] Economists point to low unemployment and a cooling inflation rate though the consumer price index was 3.5% higher in March than a year ago.

[00:09:55] Meanwhile, consumers see higher prices just about everywhere they look.

[00:09:59] The consumer price index for food rose 25% from 2019 to 2023.

[00:10:05] Gas prices have gone up 50% in the past four years.

[00:10:09] Fuel oil prices jumped by more than half in the same period.

[00:10:13] Home prices have gone up nearly 50% nationwide since the start of the pandemic.

[00:10:17] Paul Krugman has an answer for Americans.

[00:10:19] He says, maybe my message here sounds like Obi-Wan Kenobi in reverse.

[00:10:24] Look, don't trust your feelings.

[00:10:26] Michael Powell responds that Americans would be wiser to trust their feelings and checking accounts than to rely on liberal economists riffing as Jedi masters.

[00:10:36] That is why there's such a gap between liberal economists and American consumers.

[00:10:40] I'm Kirby Anderson and that's my point of view.

[00:10:44] For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Critical Race Theory, go to viewpoints.info.cl

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] Nancy Crensh with us as we talk about her book, Ghosted, an American story.

[00:11:08] She should be able to find it in your local bookstore.

[00:11:10] It's been out about a week and if you cannot find it, certainly we have information about it so you can get it in Hardback or Kindle.

[00:11:17] And it is published by good friends at Sondervan and quite a story indeed.

[00:11:21] And you were talking about of course running into David, but before that, of course one of your chapters talks about,

[00:11:26] I wanted a guy to change my life, someone to swoop in and be different enough from me to pull me from the quicksand and take things in a different direction.

[00:11:35] And then the next two chapters really kind of tell the stories of some of those, if you will, I guess we could call them poor choices.

[00:11:43] But as we left you, you were talking about the fact that David was able to speak to you and really put in front of you this idea of the trilemma.

[00:11:55] Lord Lyre or lunatic, which is really based upon C.S. Lewis's argument and certainly one that actually resonated with you.

[00:12:06] Oh yes, thank you for the word trilemma. I could not retrieve that from my data bank in my head.

[00:12:11] But yes, I met David. He had just graduated from law school and I was at a Christian college here in Nashville and we met on the sidewalk.

[00:12:20] And we just really hit it off and we had a lot of interesting conversations, namely because, and I talk about this in the book, but most people don't know this.

[00:12:29] And if you don't know my husband David Frantz, he currently writes for The New York Times. He's a wonderful guy. You should read him.

[00:12:36] But back in the day when we met, he was just a young attorney who just moved to town here in Nashville.

[00:12:44] And we hit it off, but regrettably he was very sick. He was diagnosed with an incurable disease and was dying essentially from chronic ulcerative colitis.

[00:12:55] He was about to have a colon removed when I met him and pretty much.

[00:13:01] And so we had a very short lived dating experience because all of our conversations were serious.

[00:13:10] And we weren't talking. We were pretty frivolous and silly, but there were a lot of grave things happening around us.

[00:13:17] And so we got engaged very quickly after meeting each other and we were married within three months.

[00:13:25] And that was 28 years ago. So it's a great story now, but it caused a lot of heartache amongst our friends and family as you might imagine.

[00:13:33] Well, I wanted to talk about that because I remember you even writing a piece about this because I wouldn't recommend normally that if you have very significant reservations expressed by your family

[00:13:48] and you only have known a person for a few months that you would go off and marry that individual.

[00:13:54] But of course, I guess I remember reading about going to Bill Gauthard and some of those other things.

[00:13:59] But it does seem to me that at the time the arguments were pretty much against you marrying David French and yet I think it turned out pretty well, didn't it?

[00:14:09] Yes. And this is just my story. This is not like the way to live or the way to date or the way to whatever.

[00:14:19] Yeah, it worked out for us and it's been wonderful and that has been ever.

[00:14:25] But again, he got healthy and then you have an individual that's a Harvard Law grad. He's working with fire and he's also going to the military.

[00:14:36] So talk about his life for just a minute because his life then affects your life. How does that come together?

[00:14:42] Right. When you say he got healthy, that is exactly true and it's a miracle because his friends at the Harvard Law School Christian Fellowship prayed for him for hours

[00:14:55] and a miracle happened. He was cured of his incurable disease and that was back in like 1995 and he has been healthy ever since

[00:15:07] and I'm very thankful for that. But after he regained his health, thanks be to God, we got married in France, we moved to New York.

[00:15:17] We had sort of like this chaotic, crazy life because I was from a small town in Tennessee and I just wanted to do things that sounded fancy,

[00:15:27] things that sounded sophisticated. So when he proposed I thought, hey, we could get married in Paris because that was the most romantic place

[00:15:35] I'd ever thought of. I've never been to Paris, France obviously. And then when he proposed I said, yeah, I'll marry you but let's live in Manhattan and have a view of the Empire State Building.

[00:15:46] And that was only because that was the only building I knew that was in New York. It wasn't like I was... So I was just trying to sound fancy because it sounded

[00:15:56] like the type of thing like a Harvard law grad would expect in a future wife and I was sort of trying to become this person that I wasn't.

[00:16:03] But he sort of faked me out a bit too when you only date for five minutes, you can pretend to be what you are but over the past 28 years we've gotten to know each other.

[00:16:14] But he's a wonderful guy. He took his Harvard education, he used his constitutional knowledge to defend the rights of Christians on college campuses and he did it in many different ways.

[00:16:29] And then after 9-11 he actually joined the Army and was deployed to the D'Ala province in Iraq and earned a Bronze Star.

[00:16:38] And since then he's worked for various publications but he currently is a columnist for the New York Times. I wanted their conservative columnist and I'm just very proud of the guy.

[00:16:49] But again what was happening is as you said kind of whirlwind, I mean first of all David's healing then a French wedding and as you said at one point didn't really expect this would be my actual life.

[00:17:02] Then he gets a teaching position at Cornell Law School and now you're in Ithaca, New York in which you are dealing with an annual snowfall of 70 inches a year and all sorts of other things.

[00:17:17] So just all over the map but over time, let's get back to your story a little bit. In terms of joining Alliance Defending Freedom you begin to think about using your writing skills because all that comes together and gave you a chance to meet Mitt Romney and his wife and actually writing a number of what ended up being bestselling books.

[00:17:44] Right, yes. So I do not like to brag about my credentials but I made three time college dropout and David likes to say that I am very ambitious and I may drop out of more colleges before this is all said and done.

[00:17:58] However I never really knew what to do with my life and after I stayed home with the kids and sent them off to kindergarten I decided to start writing. Eventually through a crazy set of events I end up writing being on the campaign bus with the Romney back in 0708

[00:18:18] and I wrote a book for Ann that never felt a lot of day because Romney wasn't the GOP nominee but that led to the Palins reaching out and I literally lived with Sarah Palin in Alaska and their family and I probably did three Palin books and worked with Bristol Palin,

[00:18:38] Sarah and Todd's daughter and that opened, that was a New York Times bestseller so once I had that under my belt this college dropout started getting attention from other GOP people who needed books.

[00:18:51] And so that is how I got into it. It is like one of those things that you cannot really follow the path of this to be successful.

[00:18:58] The first thing you do is drop out of three colleges. The second thing you do is it doesn't quite make sense but my life has just meandered around and I have hoarded me all these really interesting opportunities.

[00:19:10] Well let's if we can take a break and when we come back maybe we will bring it into some of the things that really are significant in terms of your life because you actually open the book not by telling this story of when you were born

[00:19:25] but instead getting a business card that was taped to your mailbox and it said FBI and you're wondering what is this all about and then they are concerned that a pipe bomb might be used against you.

[00:19:40] We will also talk about white supremacists coming to your home. We'll talk about other kinds of threats and a number of other issues so if you hadn't already talked about some of the kind of traumatic experiences you had leading in the

[00:19:55] up to this there are others and of course we certainly encourage people to pray as you are right now as bold as you've ever been in terms of some of the other circumstances you're going through.

[00:20:06] So let me take a break and when we come back we'll get into some of those other events most of which are political and if you would like to join the conversation.

[00:20:14] Of course we're talking with Nancy French the book is entitled ghosted an American story but certainly we did not have of course Mitt Romney winning the nomination in 2008 but he did win 2008 I should say.

[00:20:30] But again very different as we look at what happened in 2012 I need to get my numbers right but again what we're talking about here are some other things that began to surface and we'll talk about that with Nancy French.

[00:20:45] And if you of course are interested in the book let me mention that we have first of all a link to her website which you can follow it's Nancy French dot com pretty simple to find there then also we have other information about where you can find her on the various social media and of course information about the

[00:21:04] book ghosted which is published by Zondervan.

[00:21:07] If you'd like to join the conversation that number is 1-800-351-1212 and we want to give you a chance to join in the conversation as well as we talk with her and kind of look at the political environment that has unfolded over the last approximately 20 years so we'll talk about that right after these important messages.

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[00:23:03] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:11] And now here again is Kirby Anderson.

[00:23:14] We'd like to join the conversation 1-800-351-1212.

[00:23:18] Get to some phone calls in just a minute.

[00:23:20] Privilege to have with us Nancy French as we talk about her book Ghosted and I thought I'd start with something positive that will back us into the negative and that is the issue of adoption.

[00:23:29] And that is recently we have been promoting the conference that was just held called Chosen which was really promoting Christians to get involved in adoption and foster care.

[00:23:40] And that brings us to your own desire in terms of international adoption.

[00:23:45] So I wanted to talk about the positive aspect of that but that led very quickly to some attacks that came against you and your husband, right?

[00:23:55] Right, yes. We had two biological children together and after David's deployment to Iraq we decided to adopt.

[00:24:01] And yeah, we enlarged our family with our third daughter named Naomi that way and she's a huge blessing to our family.

[00:24:09] What I didn't anticipate is the transracial angst that would culturally develop and become more and more acute as the years went on.

[00:24:21] You know, like you sort of think of adoption and you think of getting this beautiful baby and everyone being excited about it.

[00:24:27] But there's a lot of political undertones about adoption that I was not completely aware of.

[00:24:35] And then in more recent years with the rise of white nationalism because Naomi is black, she's been targeted, our family has been targeted in ways that I did not anticipate.

[00:24:49] Yes, and again referred to as the little Ethiopian and some of those kinds of things.

[00:24:54] And so that all of a sudden puts you into this whole idea of the alt-right.

[00:25:00] And David at one point asked you, do you know Steve Bannon?

[00:25:04] And you said, well, you don't remember how he took his bagels because I guess you had actually served breakfast to him from the Pailin household.

[00:25:11] Well, that led to all the questions about the alt-right and Breitbart and a number of other issues.

[00:25:18] And so very quickly some of these topics which, and even individuals that you knew, you began to find yourself on the receiving end of a fair amount of negative publicity.

[00:25:29] Is that a fair way to put it?

[00:25:32] Yeah, that's a fair way to put it.

[00:25:34] And yeah, it was funny because my husband opposed, or both David and I opposed Trump in 2016 which is when all of the angst started because we used to be very popular amongst Republicans.

[00:25:51] David even won the CPAC Ronald Reagan Award in 2012.

[00:25:56] And then once he made that decision, because David said that he was too conservative to support Donald Trump, we became about as popular as head-bice in the party.

[00:26:06] But the attacks were not rhetorical.

[00:26:12] The attacks were more like sexualized and racialized.

[00:26:16] Right.

[00:26:17] And they didn't talk to us about the various topics.

[00:26:20] Like it's a very legitimate conversation to talk about the various political issues that, you know, we're surrounding these presidential races.

[00:26:27] But what happened was people instead just wanted to eviscerate us and make us miserable.

[00:26:33] And so they made fun of my sexual abuse.

[00:26:35] They made fun of our adoption.

[00:26:37] They made fun of Naomi with language that I couldn't even really say when I read the audiobook.

[00:26:42] I didn't even want to say it.

[00:26:43] It was so bad.

[00:26:44] Yeah.

[00:26:45] So we just, yeah, we've been through a lot.

[00:26:47] But of course the adoption journey was totally worth it.

[00:26:50] And we don't regret, you know, taking those fancies that we've made.

[00:26:55] But we just didn't anticipate how much it would cost.

[00:26:58] Let me just a minute talk about his decision and then the non-decision to run for the presidency.

[00:27:04] But let me take some phone calls along the way.

[00:27:06] So on the state of Texas, Byron, thank you for calling today.

[00:27:08] What would you like to share?

[00:27:10] Thank you so much, Kirby.

[00:27:12] First of all, I'd like to say I'm so happy that you're still on the air.

[00:27:16] That's good to know.

[00:27:17] Because I didn't know I had listened to you in years.

[00:27:21] I mean, Marlon was still with you the last time I heard you guys.

[00:27:24] I was dropped out here on Route 66 in Adrian, Texas, which is the middle of nowhere on a farm to market road.

[00:27:31] I went to turn off the radio so I could return a phone call and it didn't turn off.

[00:27:36] It switched to this program.

[00:27:39] And when I came into the program, she was saying that it's about age 50 on average when people finally come to terms with their sexual abuse.

[00:27:50] And I thought, oh my God, I'm supposed to be listening to this because a week ago I confided in a friend that I was so frustrated and I felt like a failure because

[00:28:04] I still wrestle at times with things that happened to me when I was 10.

[00:28:10] And I brought up my abuse when I was 30 because my marriage was falling apart and I was in counseling and my parents drove to a major metropolitan city where I was living to meet with the counselor.

[00:28:24] And I told them what had happened and I quote, my father said, if it happened, it was your fault because if you told me I would have done something about it.

[00:28:35] And then my mother said, I always wondered what changed about you.

[00:28:39] I knew something was wrong but I didn't want to ask.

[00:28:44] And now I'm still wrestling at times with those demons that I cannot seem to put to rest and just cheering her say that, I was like, oh God, I am not just crazy.

[00:28:56] I'm not abnormal.

[00:28:58] And Byron, I might just say we do talk about that quite often and we have booklets that we've done on domestic abuse, sexual abuse.

[00:29:06] I certainly would encourage you to find a Christian counselor that can maybe bring out some of the other feelings and concerns you have.

[00:29:15] And Nancy, I'll let you jump in because you've been down this road as well. Maybe you can give some advice.

[00:29:20] Yes. I'm sorry. I feel emotional hearing that, Byron.

[00:29:27] I'm also high as a kite on cancer drugs right now but, you know, as Kirby has said in this interview, I've been investigating sex abuse at Kanaka camps in Missouri.

[00:29:40] And a lot of those kids are just now getting to the point where they're talking about it.

[00:29:45] So there's hundreds of victims and I've just for the past few years been neck deep in this.

[00:29:50] And I think one of the blessings or the benefits of my book is sort of talking about what happens when you're abused and how the church, like, I'm sorry the way that your parents responded that's so difficult.

[00:30:09] But the church responds wrongly. You know, so like the church responds not just individually but it responds wrongly collectively.

[00:30:17] So like in the instance of the Kanaka camps thing which I did eight articles, ended up front page of USA Today, proved the stuff I wanted to prove.

[00:30:26] And then I thought the church would have this collective outrage because we are the people who care about family values and children and sexual purity, marriage vows.

[00:30:39] And the church just had this collective yawn. They did not want to know it.

[00:30:45] And the hard lesson that I learned and is very difficult to learn. I'm still not over it. I will never be over it until the day I die.

[00:30:52] Is that they believe that like Harvey Weinstein or Bill Clinton can be a rapist.

[00:30:59] And to be clear, I believe that both of those men are.

[00:31:03] But they will not go against someone who is purportedly in their tribe like Donald Trump, who's been held liable in court for rape.

[00:31:12] Or if there's somebody at their Christian camp that they really like, he's magnanimous.

[00:31:17] He brings a lot of people into the Bible study. Then they're willing to overlook it.

[00:31:21] I don't know how to deal with that. And so I don't, maybe other people have answers but I wrangled with it for years because I thought I belonged to the tribe of people,

[00:31:34] Christian people who cared about certain values. But when it all came down to it, I revealed all of the sex abuse and it, it, no one really paid that much attention, which is shocking.

[00:31:51] Especially when you have all kinds of politicos talking about various pedophile related conspiracy theories that have not been proven yet my investigation was completely proven.

[00:32:02] You know, again when you talk about that we've had everybody from Mary DeMuth to June Hunt and a variety of others talking about the issue of sexual abuse.

[00:32:11] I'll use Mary DeMuth because she's a good friend and has been here on the program pointing out that the same sort of things have happened when you talk about the Catholic Church.

[00:32:19] Or let's pick a partisan denomination, the Southern Baptist Convention.

[00:32:23] And there is a tendency sometimes and it is not one that I endorse at all but I'm at least trying to explain.

[00:32:31] These individuals say well if we bring this out then the institution itself will be harmed.

[00:32:38] Well the institution has already been harmed by the actions those individuals took.

[00:32:42] And first of all for Byron let me just say for you I hope that you will find a listening ear, an individual that provides some counseling, some direction for you individually.

[00:32:54] But after we come back from the break Nancy let's talk a little bit about, I guess we'll skip over some of the other parts of your book.

[00:33:00] What we can and should do because it does seem to me that as just the other day Bill Maher was saying you know here we're having people now telling us what happened in Nickelodeon.

[00:33:12] And he says you know it's the old why do I rob banks, that's where the money is.

[00:33:18] Well why do pedophiles end up in places like camps, Boy Scouts, Disney, all sorts of other places like that.

[00:33:28] Well that's because that's where the children are and it's a cautionary tale that you tell.

[00:33:33] And a wise individual who is in a position of leadership in some of these for example Christian camps needs to take action.

[00:33:42] So we'll talk about that right after these important messages.

[00:33:46] Music

[00:33:55] Music

[00:33:57] You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth.

[00:34:02] Back once again Nancy French with us as we were talking about ghosted and I just mentioned Bill Maher in passing.

[00:34:07] He said you know I don't have kids I don't even like kids but why is that I'm always bringing these up.

[00:34:11] And he was talking about Nickelodeon and Disney and Boy Scouts of course added camps and a variety of others.

[00:34:19] And not to mention just all the very prominent people.

[00:34:22] And so Nancy let's go to an email you received a number of years ago from Gretchen Carlson.

[00:34:28] Now many of us will remember her as an individual that was on Fox News who then later sued Roger Ailes,

[00:34:35] the founder of Fox for sexual harassment and she contacted you.

[00:34:40] And there have been so many examples that have come out.

[00:34:45] Many of them have been from news media, from Hollywood and other places about this.

[00:34:52] So as you point out there should be more of a collective outrage.

[00:34:57] But if anything we're recognizing how deep and pervasive this issue of sexual abuse really is in America.

[00:35:04] So I think that's one of the most important things that you can do to help us understand your thoughts.

[00:35:08] Yes, I think the most important thing that I'm taking away from it is not how pervasive it is in America

[00:35:13] because we expect there to be difficult things in this world but how pervasive it is in the church

[00:35:19] and how people who go to church do not care about that.

[00:35:22] So I think we can all collectively get together and say that the Catholics have a really bad problem.

[00:35:28] The potluck table and say is that the Baptists really need to get some stuff together.

[00:35:33] And that is what has been going on.

[00:35:35] So I've approved all this stuff at these Christian camps, this Cannecote camps in Missouri

[00:35:40] and you have all kinds of denominations that feed into this camp and they still feed into this camp.

[00:35:46] There's not been a collective outrage.

[00:35:48] So I do have a lot of concern for the sex abuse that exists in all of these secular organizations

[00:35:55] but even more so I feel like the church should be a place of safe haven where this should not be tolerated

[00:36:02] and if it happens then you should respond well to it which is respond at all.

[00:36:08] And it does seem to me that I would do want to try to figure out what we can do going forward

[00:36:14] because my wife will tell you I probably speak at lots of Christian camps,

[00:36:19] probably speak more at pregnancy resource centers anywhere else

[00:36:21] but certainly a close second would be speaking all sorts of camps.

[00:36:25] I've been on the board of one of camps and that is Pine Cove

[00:36:28] and that has always been a concern as a board member or as an individual who has participated in those camps.

[00:36:35] You're bringing in individuals, you hope that you know something about them.

[00:36:39] You do some kind of background check but I've come to realize how deceptive pedophiles can be,

[00:36:47] how deceptive sexually abusive people can be.

[00:36:51] And then you bring in all sorts of summer campers and also counselors who you've met on a campus,

[00:36:58] maybe you've done some background check and there's just so much of a potential for a problem.

[00:37:04] So after looking at this story and you have a whole section on your website

[00:37:11] and go to NancyFrench.com and see all your different articles on this investigative journalism,

[00:37:17] can you give some advice to individuals who are pastors or camp leaders

[00:37:23] or individuals that sit on the board of Christian organizations

[00:37:27] because it does seem to me that we certainly need to have a collective outrage after the fact

[00:37:33] but what can we do so it doesn't happen in the future?

[00:37:37] Well, that's a very good question but I just wanted to push back a little bit on the narrative.

[00:37:41] So like the way that you describe it, it seems like there's this sexual abuse,

[00:37:46] like this pedophilia fog that comes down and you can't do anything to escape it.

[00:37:51] That is not the narrative that happened at Kanatak Camp.

[00:37:55] They were aware of all this abusive stuff for 10 years and they let the guy keep going.

[00:38:00] So it's not like you have to have a Ouija board or some sort of witchcraft

[00:38:05] to figure out what's actually happening in this fog of war.

[00:38:09] That is not the case.

[00:38:11] There were people who were literally telling, reporting this person for his abusive behavior,

[00:38:16] witnessed it and they ignored it and the same people who are oversold that abuse

[00:38:21] are still in charge of the camp today.

[00:38:23] So it's a totally different narrative than something that's just happening

[00:38:26] that you can't quite figure out how to maneuver.

[00:38:30] But maneuvering it is very important.

[00:38:33] So you mentioned background checks, you mentioned just being aware,

[00:38:39] like taking people seriously.

[00:38:41] There's just a million things that you can do, for example,

[00:38:44] not having an internal alarm system.

[00:38:47] So if someone at a camp is abused,

[00:38:49] you don't have them write it down on a piece of paper and drop it in a wooden box

[00:38:53] where possibly their abuser gets it out and reads it, call the cops.

[00:38:57] You know, there's just a lot of very common sense stuff,

[00:39:00] but we're not even... I'm not even at the common sense stuff.

[00:39:03] I'm at the most basic white and black response to children being abused.

[00:39:09] You know, like you physically stop it

[00:39:13] and that's the narrative that was happening in this Missouri thing,

[00:39:16] let alone the Baptist, which I haven't even had a chance to really dig into

[00:39:21] because that was such a massive violation of trust with their congregants

[00:39:27] and with all of these victims.

[00:39:29] So it's not even like difficult.

[00:39:31] I would like to have a conversation, the PhD level conversation

[00:39:36] about how to prevent sexual abuse.

[00:39:38] I'm at the kindergarten preschool level where we can say,

[00:39:42] okay, pedophilia is bad.

[00:39:44] When someone is reported to be a pedophile, we call the cops.

[00:39:47] That right there would have eliminated 97% of the stuff that happened at Cannecox.

[00:39:52] Yeah, and again, when you were talking about that,

[00:39:55] what I see is time and time again because that seems to have happened

[00:39:59] in Southern Baptist Convention.

[00:40:00] I'll just again trust people like Mary D'Amouth and others that have researched it

[00:40:05] to say they knew this so they sent this individual to another church.

[00:40:10] As I understand from the camp,

[00:40:12] I'll take you from this particular camp to another particular camp

[00:40:15] because it's a multi-camp setting.

[00:40:17] And the situation where you just keep passing it on is one.

[00:40:23] The other thing I want to pass on to pastors is,

[00:40:25] you will hear the story and the natural reaction is,

[00:40:29] oh, well that person's an elder or that person,

[00:40:32] I've known that person for years.

[00:40:34] I don't think that, no, that can't possibly be.

[00:40:36] Your reaction will determine whether it goes any further

[00:40:39] because then that person might just close up for the next couple of years.

[00:40:43] You have a duty to report and you have a duty to take seriously those kinds of comments, don't you?

[00:40:50] Yes, you should listen to the people who are telling you that they're being abused.

[00:40:57] And so it's very difficult, like Byron the caller from Texas said,

[00:41:01] it's very difficult to say that you're being abused.

[00:41:04] But there are instances, like we were talking about with the Baptist and with Cannecox,

[00:41:08] where people were saying, hey, I'm being abused.

[00:41:10] Hey, this person is participating in new behavior with children.

[00:41:13] And they were just yawned.

[00:41:16] They were like, oh, this person is too important to us.

[00:41:18] This person brings in money.

[00:41:19] This whatever, you know?

[00:41:20] And there are multiple people, you know?

[00:41:23] But it's just having that outrage and the, okay,

[00:41:27] we're not going to let this happen under our watch.

[00:41:30] Just having that posture would be so amazing and refreshing.

[00:41:34] Well, again, that's one of the final chapters, two final chapters in your book.

[00:41:38] But if you go to your website, NancyFrench.com, scroll to the bottom.

[00:41:42] You'll see some of those articles.

[00:41:44] And again, I call this a cautionary tale.

[00:41:47] Make sure that these kinds of things don't happen in your church,

[00:41:50] your denomination, your Christian camp, whatever it might be.

[00:41:53] And just a call for us again to speak truth

[00:41:57] and to always address these very difficult issues,

[00:42:00] which we've talked about here on Point of View.

[00:42:02] So Nancy, I appreciate you writing the book.

[00:42:04] And I know in the midst of what you're going through right now in cancer treatment,

[00:42:08] it was a very significant challenge to give me an hour.

[00:42:11] So I appreciate that you did that as well.

[00:42:14] Kirby, thank you so much.

[00:42:16] We last we cried this was something else.

[00:42:18] Thank you so much.

[00:42:19] All right.

[00:42:20] Well, we're going to take a break.

[00:42:21] And when we come back, Marjorie Danden-Felser has written a piece

[00:42:24] in which she says,

[00:42:25] Donald Trump is wrong.

[00:42:26] Abortion opponents are looking for a national leader.

[00:42:28] She was disappointed by what the president or former president

[00:42:31] had to say about the whole issue of the pro-life movement.

[00:42:34] So we're going to get into that.

[00:42:35] And of course, you again can ask questions, make comments,

[00:42:38] and then we'll get into all the protest on the college campuses taking place.

[00:42:44] Unbelievable what is happening here.

[00:42:46] It's gone from bad to worse.

[00:42:47] We'll talk about that as well.

[00:42:49] And if we don't get to all that today,

[00:42:50] well, there's always tomorrow.

[00:42:52] And of course, our Friday weekend edition.

[00:42:54] One last time the book is entitled Ghosted.

[00:42:56] Just came out.

[00:42:57] Nancy French wrote it.

[00:42:58] It is published by Zondervan.

[00:43:00] You should be able to find it in the local bookstore.

[00:43:02] But if you want to learn more about her or the book,

[00:43:04] it's all available at our website, pointofview.net.

[00:43:08] Let's take a break.

[00:43:09] We've got more right after this.

[00:43:12] Where does moral truth come from?

[00:43:14] According to 58% of Americans, individuals determine moral truth.

[00:43:19] A quarter of Generation Z says society determines moral truth

[00:43:24] and morality can even change over time.

[00:43:26] Only 42% of Americans believe that truth comes from God.

[00:43:31] I don't know about you, but I find these numbers extremely troubling.

[00:43:35] It really is a crisis of truth and that crisis has consequences.

[00:43:39] Look at society.

[00:43:41] Evil is called good, good called evil.

[00:43:44] People with biblical beliefs are called bigots or worse, they're canceled.

[00:43:48] But there is hope.

[00:43:50] The Bible promises the truth will set us free

[00:43:53] and that's why Point of View is relentless in our commitment

[00:43:56] to the ultimate source of moral truth, God's Word.

[00:44:00] At Point of View we know that God's truth is eternal

[00:44:04] and if we stand together we can help more Americans

[00:44:07] apply his truth in their daily life.

[00:44:10] Help Americans find truth again by giving at pointofview.net

[00:44:15] or call 1-800-347-5151.

[00:44:19] That's pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:44:26] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:44:32] Across America.

[00:44:35] Live, this is Point of View.

[00:44:38] And now, Kirby Anderson.

[00:44:41] Second hour today and I might just say those of you that actually listen to Point of View

[00:44:45] on a regular basis,

[00:44:47] you can watch the video on the Internet.

[00:44:50] You can watch it on your own.

[00:44:53] You can watch it on your own.

[00:44:56] You can watch it on your own.

[00:44:59] I would just say those of you that actually listen to Point of View on a regular basis

[00:45:03] might remember that two weeks ago I posted this piece by Marjorie Dannenfelser

[00:45:08] in which it said,

[00:45:09] Trump is wrong.

[00:45:11] Abortion opponents are looking for a national leader.

[00:45:14] You've probably heard me use the cut line from that more than a few times.

[00:45:18] The geography of where you live shouldn't determine whether you live

[00:45:22] and so we posted that and spent a fair amount of time talking about it

[00:45:26] and then I found that Marjorie could join us.

[00:45:29] I jumped at that opportunity.

[00:45:31] Marjorie Dannenfelser is the president of the Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America.

[00:45:35] Author of the book, Life is Winning Inside the Fight for Unborn Children and Their Mothers

[00:45:40] and even though she is going to be critical of Donald Trump

[00:45:44] I might remind you that she served as the national co-chair

[00:45:47] of the Pro-Life Voices for the Trump Coalition.

[00:45:50] So Marjorie, welcome back to Point of View.

[00:45:53] What a pleasure as always and I jumped at the opportunity also.

[00:45:56] Kirby, thank you.

[00:45:57] Well again, we've been talking about you for two weeks

[00:45:59] so might as well let you talk for yourself because it has to do with the fact

[00:46:03] that in case people are not familiar and I think we've talked about this enough.

[00:46:07] The president, former president said that he was going to really just allow

[00:46:12] the states to make a decision and your concern is at a time when we have had a president

[00:46:18] let's give credit where credit is due.

[00:46:20] President Trump you said could truly be called the most consequential pro-life president

[00:46:25] because of the reverse of Roe vs. Wade.

[00:46:28] It doesn't make some sense then from there to then pigeonhole that issue to the states

[00:46:34] because as you point out because of where you live will determine whether you live.

[00:46:38] I think it's a great line.

[00:46:39] I've used it maybe too many times already.

[00:46:42] Well, it does take a few times repeating for it to touch in the brain and the heart.

[00:46:48] I kind of want to repeat what you said but also from personal experience with the former president

[00:46:55] who we with so many commitments made to the pro-life movement

[00:47:01] follow through in a way that no other Republican official ever has

[00:47:06] and certainly presidential candidates never have.

[00:47:09] And so it is true that his presidency was the most consequential for the pro-life movement

[00:47:15] in half a century.

[00:47:17] We wouldn't even be having this conversation about the direction in which to take

[00:47:21] the fight to protect unborn children and their moms if he had not stood by his commitment on judges.

[00:47:29] And so I just always have to say that at the outset because I do

[00:47:34] and we all have such gratitude for that.

[00:47:36] But then of course as you say that launched the beginning of a whole new pro-life movement

[00:47:42] that meant that we could begin.

[00:47:44] And when you're at the starting line, you don't want to close off the next turn.

[00:47:48] And so that is where the pro-life criticism comes from

[00:47:55] and that we either a nation that stands for the 14th amendment, the equal perception under the law

[00:48:00] or either a nation that stands in the world for the human rights

[00:48:08] and the equal dignity of all human beings or we don't.

[00:48:13] And right now we lag behind 47 out of 50 European nations in just that.

[00:48:18] We have no limit nationally.

[00:48:20] There is nothing that we have said as a nation about where even some modest place

[00:48:27] like a 12, 13, 14, any limit as a minimum standard.

[00:48:32] And so that was the basis of the criticism.

[00:48:35] I have talked to him and he understands that it's not a good moment

[00:48:42] from our perspective on the pro-life movement.

[00:48:45] I think in the end we can keep talking about this and just whatever perspective you'd like to take.

[00:48:51] I'd like to talk with you about it, Kirby.

[00:48:54] But I think that where we are is we do have a sitting present and a Senate

[00:49:01] and a potential majority in the House that would like to shut down all state efforts,

[00:49:07] wide-way every single state protection in the country

[00:49:11] and also pregnancy care center efforts in this country.

[00:49:15] And so defeating Biden now and trying to get a stronger majority in the House

[00:49:23] and get a majority in the Senate still is the political priority.

[00:49:27] It's just that he has made this very difficult.

[00:49:32] And again, I think what you are saying is that we still have some real opportunities.

[00:49:37] I appreciate the fact that early on you do talk about the fact that in 47 out of 50 states,

[00:49:42] nations I should say in Europe they limit abortions.

[00:49:45] And part of it has to do with the fact that you have, I think it's fair to say,

[00:49:50] a significant number that consider themselves pro-life, rasmus and polsus 37 percent.

[00:49:56] A significant percentage that call themselves pro-choice,

[00:49:59] but not pro-choice the way the Democratic Party is up until birth.

[00:50:04] As you move along the spectrum, you have a greater and greater percentage of individuals

[00:50:10] who may say I don't like abortion,

[00:50:13] but I'm at least open to exceptions, a time limit or something of that nature.

[00:50:19] And that's not happening in some of those states like California, is it?

[00:50:24] No, that's right. So I think that this Supreme Court decision,

[00:50:29] like many other major human rights decisions through American history,

[00:50:34] Brown versus Board of Education is a great example,

[00:50:37] that they hit with shock and awe that it disrupted the status quo

[00:50:42] and even people that were on the side of desegregation were kind of caught flat-footed.

[00:50:50] So what are we going to do next?

[00:50:52] And it made the space for some pretty intense movements to keep segregation in line

[00:50:59] and in a major way using the long arm of the government to do so.

[00:51:03] We're seeing a lot, I think, of similar reaction.

[00:51:06] It's basically all, it's all based in fear,

[00:51:09] not based in the belief of the dignity of the human being.

[00:51:12] It's based in fear of how are people going to react,

[00:51:15] whether they're going to be politically, morally, people in my household,

[00:51:18] Thanksgiving dinner, what is it going to look like?

[00:51:20] But you can think about all of those concerns,

[00:51:23] all those fears that come washing over us.

[00:51:27] But unless we get back to the fundamentals of what this thing is

[00:51:31] that we have been fighting for for over 50 years now,

[00:51:36] it is in the fundamental dignity of the human being.

[00:51:39] That's been every, and if it's about that,

[00:51:43] then it cannot be based on where you live.

[00:51:45] Whether you live can't depend upon where you live.

[00:51:50] A baby born in California has the same dignity as a baby born in Arkansas.

[00:51:58] And we have a different complexion in our country,

[00:52:03] but we have to come to consensus on something just at least to begin the incremental progress,

[00:52:09] just like Lincoln did in coming to a place where we affirm all that dignity.

[00:52:14] It's a nail in a ball right.

[00:52:16] Let's take a break because when we come back from the break,

[00:52:19] I know you'll have a few more minutes, but maybe when we come back you can talk about what's at stake.

[00:52:23] You've already sort of talked about this because now we have abortion drugs being sent by mail.

[00:52:28] You have as you said the possibility that we attempt to outlaw every pregnancy resource center,

[00:52:35] crisis pregnancy center and the rest.

[00:52:37] And I'd love for you in the very short time we'll have left to also just talk about what you are doing

[00:52:42] at Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America in terms of trying to reach, I guess it is, about 10 million voters.

[00:52:51] Because I think this illustrates more and more you have to reach the hearts and minds

[00:52:56] the old day of trying to reach an abortion minded woman as she walks to the abortion clinic

[00:53:01] and you're going to have to reach them before they go to a CVS or Walgreen.

[00:53:05] So we're going to talk about what that means and why I think it's even more important now

[00:53:09] to support these pro-life organizations.

[00:53:11] So let's take a break.

[00:53:12] We'll have a few more minutes with Marjorie Danden-Felzer

[00:53:14] than she has to run off to some other activities,

[00:53:16] but we will spend a little more time with her.

[00:53:18] And of course we'll open up the phones in just a few minutes for your comments.

[00:53:21] All that coming up right after this.

[00:53:36] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:53:40] Most left-leaning economists cannot understand why American consumers are complaining

[00:53:44] when many economic indicators are positive.

[00:53:46] One of those individuals is Paul Krugman,

[00:53:48] a Nobel Prize winning columnist for the New York Times.

[00:53:51] He argued in a previous column that inflation was not a problem

[00:53:55] and used his recent trip to the grocery store to prove it.

[00:53:58] He says, now I go grocery shopping by myself

[00:54:01] and I'm occasionally startled by the total at the cash register,

[00:54:04] although that's usually because I wasn't factoring in the price of that bottle of scotch

[00:54:09] I picked up along with meat and vegetables.

[00:54:11] He did admit that he had no idea what he paid for the same groceries a few years ago.

[00:54:15] Michael Powell writing in The Atlantic uses that story to illustrate

[00:54:19] the growing chasm between liberal economists and American consumers.

[00:54:23] Economists point to low unemployment and a cooling inflation rate,

[00:54:28] though the Consumer Price Index was 3.5% higher in March than a year ago.

[00:54:33] Meanwhile, consumers see higher prices just about everywhere they look.

[00:54:37] The Consumer Price Index for food rose 25% from 2019 to 2023.

[00:54:43] Gas prices have gone up 50% in the past four years.

[00:54:46] Fuel oil prices jumped by more than half in the same period.

[00:54:50] Home prices have gone up nearly 50% nationwide since the start of the pandemic.

[00:54:54] Paul Krugman has an answer for Americans.

[00:54:57] He says, maybe my message here sounds like Obi-Wan Kenobi in reverse.

[00:55:01] Look, don't trust your feelings.

[00:55:03] Michael Powell responds that Americans would be wiser to trust their feelings

[00:55:07] and checking accounts than to rely on liberal economists riffing as Jedi masters.

[00:55:13] That is why there's such a gap between liberal economists and American consumers.

[00:55:17] I'm Kirby Anderson and that's my point of view.

[00:55:21] For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Critical Race Theory,

[00:55:27] go to viewpoints.info.cl

[00:55:51] The opening statement there, a promise from Joe Biden.

[00:55:56] I promise you I will restore Roe V. Wade as the law of the land again.

[00:56:01] So Marjorie, that's what we're up against and it does seem to me that a lot of this is messaging

[00:56:07] because I've seen some polls that seem to indicate that most Americans are not aware

[00:56:12] that people that are pro-abortion and even the Democratic Party's policy statements

[00:56:18] and some of the policy platforms really want unrestricted abortion all the way to birth

[00:56:24] and most Americans do not accept that.

[00:56:27] That's right.

[00:56:28] And I, the contrast is everything and that's what you look for in politics.

[00:56:33] When you're looking for who to vote for, there might not be a perfect person

[00:56:37] but you have to look at what the contrast is.

[00:56:39] And we know what this president, this current president's position is,

[00:56:44] what Schumer and the majority in the Senate is, and that is unlimited abortion.

[00:56:49] They will not be located at any point in the gestational spectrum.

[00:56:54] Like they will not say there's any point that they would limit abortion

[00:56:57] and they won't say it because they don't want you to know that there is no limit.

[00:57:02] They can't name it and they won't.

[00:57:04] It goes against, it's a little bit of a change

[00:57:07] and it's the radicalization of the abortion movement that's happening right now.

[00:57:10] Viability, they reject even that.

[00:57:13] And I like what you said before when you were talking about the polling.

[00:57:16] I think that even people who call themselves pro-choice,

[00:57:20] it's not necessarily a great indicator of where they land.

[00:57:23] They may not believe that what we do, that life at conception is the measure

[00:57:28] but they think, you look, I don't like abortion.

[00:57:32] I mean, I want abortion in some extent but definitely not after 12 weeks.

[00:57:37] That's actually the majority in NPR polls, mainstream polls,

[00:57:42] 12 between 12 and 15 weeks.

[00:57:44] It's a strong majority and they consider themselves pro-choice.

[00:57:48] So putting the labels aside when you're in politics,

[00:57:51] you're communicating directly with people that you want to vote for the pro-life candidate

[00:57:55] and so you provide that contrast that we just discussed,

[00:57:58] unlimited abortion versus something reasonable,

[00:58:01] at least allowing states to do what they should do,

[00:58:04] unlimited abortion in their own state.

[00:58:06] So that's what we'll be doing in the next few months.

[00:58:10] And again, there's a hope to reach 10 million voters.

[00:58:13] I know you need to go on but again, people can find out a little bit more about your organization

[00:58:18] if they would want to support you, which I have certainly done.

[00:58:21] Again, it's SBAprolife.org and of course we have that link on our website.

[00:58:27] So Marjorie, thank you for joining us today here on Point of View.

[00:58:30] What a privilege.

[00:58:31] And Kirby, I just want to add one more thing and that is that I see a platform of the Republican Party fight

[00:58:38] potentially happening and so many other things.

[00:58:40] And I love this show and I love your Point of View

[00:58:44] and I look forward to joining you if you'll have me in the coming months.

[00:58:49] Well certainly and again we know some people that have worked on that platform in the past

[00:58:53] like Kelly Shackleford will be with us on Friday and some other individuals.

[00:58:56] So that is the case.

[00:58:58] Got some calls coming in if you'd like to join us.

[00:59:00] 1-800-351-1212.

[00:59:02] Let me for just a minute before I take some calls, maybe give you a sense of the surveys.

[00:59:08] Now I'm not claiming that any one poll is definitive.

[00:59:13] The problem with any of these polls on abortion is it depends on how you ask the question.

[00:59:17] If you ask questions that sound more like a woman's choice,

[00:59:21] you're going to get something that sounds a little bit more like pro-abortion.

[00:59:26] If you instead ask questions that talk about the life of the fetus or unborn or sanctity of life,

[00:59:32] you're going to get more pro-life answers.

[00:59:34] But let me just give you one poll.

[00:59:36] I mentioned it before, Rasmussen poll.

[00:59:39] Okay 37% are in round numbers a third of Americans consider themselves pro-life.

[00:59:47] But when you dig in of those people who call themselves pro-life only 29%

[00:59:53] believe that all abortion should be banned.

[00:59:56] Now part of the problem is, is the way the press has made it sound

[01:00:00] is that if indeed you're pro-life you want to ban all abortions for all reasons, no exceptions, whatever.

[01:00:07] And although many of us including myself probably would agree with that,

[01:00:11] that isn't necessarily where the American people are.

[01:00:15] On the other hand you have quite a number of individuals who will identify themselves,

[01:00:20] probably a majority of Americans who identify themselves as if you will pro-choice.

[01:00:26] But when you then ask is there any limit,

[01:00:29] you can find that about two thirds, 66% of voters do not support abortion past the first trimester,

[01:00:38] which is about the 12 or 13th week.

[01:00:40] Some have suggested and this other article we posted a while back had a 15 week federal ban as a suggestion

[01:00:49] and you can see that in that regard, even though I think that any abortion should be wrong because it's taking a life,

[01:00:57] if you even had a limit of 15 weeks which is again much more in keeping with what you find,

[01:01:05] for example in Europe you would have a majority of Americans.

[01:01:09] So a lot of this has to do with messaging and it also has to do with the fact that,

[01:01:15] as we mentioned before, a very significant number of abortions.

[01:01:19] Now more than a majority of abortions taking place because of chemical abortions

[01:01:24] and so you're not meeting an abortion minded woman as easily on the way to an abortion clinic

[01:01:31] as you are possibly wanting to meet that individual on the way to a drugstore,

[01:01:36] which again since we have our millennial round table tomorrow,

[01:01:39] Chelsea Yeoman can speak to that issue as well.

[01:01:43] Let's take some phone calls and we'll continue to take them after the break,

[01:01:47] but we'll head out to California first on KYCC.

[01:01:50] Janine, thank you for calling today.

[01:01:53] Yes, hello, thank you for hosting Marjorie in this program.

[01:01:57] I'm calling to ask and explore the idea that the 14th amendment protects the right to life for unborn children,

[01:02:07] whether it be the fact that they are residing as the word residence is in the 14th amendment in their mother's womb

[01:02:16] or what Marjorie or yourself would speak to that.

[01:02:21] Marjorie won't be here so let me try to give an answer,

[01:02:23] but if she wants to come back on the future and explain,

[01:02:26] part of the issue had to do with the Supreme Court decision of Roe v. Wade and Dovosh's Bolton

[01:02:33] because there were kind of two issues the court had to address.

[01:02:36] Number one is their privacy issue, which of course was the premier example,

[01:02:41] but the second one was the 14th amendment because the 14th amendment does provide due process for persons.

[01:02:48] So in some respects the court sort of finagled around that by saying that a developing embryo,

[01:02:56] a fetus, an unborn baby, whatever phrase you want to use and their different phrases used,

[01:03:01] of course in legal reasoning, is not a person.

[01:03:06] But as soon as you head down that road then you say when does it become a person?

[01:03:12] Because obviously it's a Homo sapiens.

[01:03:14] It has 46 chromosomes, sometimes with chromosome ebonyl,

[01:03:18] or the neuralities they have 47 chromosomes, but it is a human being.

[01:03:23] You can't say it's not human.

[01:03:25] This individual developing in a mother's womb,

[01:03:29] if put in a non-hostile environment like an artificial womb becomes what?

[01:03:34] A baby.

[01:03:35] So that's the difficulty and it seems to me that one of the ways the court could have addressed it

[01:03:41] if abortion hadn't become the kind of the big issue would be to say,

[01:03:46] look, persons are protected by the Constitution and a person inside the womb

[01:03:52] is similar to a person outside the womb.

[01:03:55] That by the way I think would be the argument you could make in some of the Old Testament passages

[01:04:00] like in Exodus and other passages.

[01:04:02] So that I think could be an argument that would be used,

[01:04:06] but of course the water has been muddied because of the Supreme Court decision Roe vs Wade.

[01:04:11] So I think it's a compelling argument.

[01:04:14] It would be certainly compelling to me.

[01:04:17] And if you had any kind of sense of continuity,

[01:04:21] you would accept that because let's face it,

[01:04:24] if a woman is killed who is pregnant most of the time in many states

[01:04:31] we will call that a double homicide.

[01:04:33] So we will treat the individual in the mother's womb as a human being.

[01:04:39] If you are an individual who has receiving some kind of inheritance

[01:04:46] and you have born children,

[01:04:49] the unborn child also has a right to inheritance as well if they are born.

[01:04:54] So there are all sorts of arguments you could make biologically, legally, philosophically about that

[01:05:02] and I think the 14th amendment is one of those.

[01:05:04] Very good question.

[01:05:05] I hope that was a good answer.

[01:05:06] If not we'll have Marjorie Danden-Felser back again

[01:05:09] and we'll talk about that in the future.

[01:05:11] And I'll take some more phone calls.

[01:05:13] I'd like to join the conversation.

[01:05:15] That number is 1-800-351-1212.

[01:05:18] I will get to a couple of the other articles we've posted here today.

[01:05:22] Cal Thomas's piece, The Empire Strikes Back

[01:05:26] and also what began at Columbia,

[01:05:29] made climax in Chicago

[01:05:32] and some of the controversies unfolding right now

[01:05:36] in terms of the various college campuses

[01:05:39] in terms of the anti-Israel pro-Hamas, pro-Palestine kind of protest.

[01:05:45] So we'll get into that as well.

[01:05:47] But if you'd like to join the conversation, that number is 1-800-351-1212.

[01:05:52] If you'd like to know more about Nancy French or Marjorie Danden-Felser,

[01:05:56] all that material is available as well on our website.

[01:05:59] Let's take a break.

[01:06:00] We'll come back with more right after this.

[01:06:03] In 19th century London,

[01:06:10] two towering historical figures did battle,

[01:06:13] not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas.

[01:06:17] London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism

[01:06:21] and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon.

[01:06:25] London was in many ways the center of the world,

[01:06:28] economically, militarily and intellectually.

[01:06:32] Marx sought to destroy religion, the family and everything the Bible supports.

[01:06:37] Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers.

[01:06:41] Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth.

[01:06:46] It is truth for all of life.

[01:06:48] Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today?

[01:06:53] Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues

[01:06:57] delivered to your inbox when you sign up for the Viewpoints commentary

[01:07:01] at PointOfView.net-slash-signup.

[01:07:05] Every weekday in less than two minutes,

[01:07:07] you'll learn how to be a person of light to stand against darkness in our time.

[01:07:12] It's free, so visit PointOfView.net-slash-signup right now.

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[01:07:26] PointOfView will continue after this.

[01:07:32] You are listening to PointOfView.

[01:07:38] The opinions expressed on PointOfView do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[01:07:45] And now here again is Kirby Anderson.

[01:08:01] On Friday we will have Kelly Shackleford with us.

[01:08:04] He has been actually on one of the platform committees in the past for the Republican Party.

[01:08:10] I think he was on with Kathy Adams thinking the past wasn't Phyllis Schlafly,

[01:08:13] one of the platform writers on the issue of abortion, a variety of others over time.

[01:08:18] So certainly I want to get his thoughts about that,

[01:08:20] especially as we talk about maybe a battle over the platform in the Republican Party.

[01:08:25] Of course it's pretty obvious what's going to happen in the Democratic Party.

[01:08:28] Pennedex, of course, has written about that as well,

[01:08:30] so I certainly want to get some of their comments about that.

[01:08:33] So I did want you to know they'll be with us on Friday and we may come back to this conversation.

[01:08:38] But we're on it. Let me head out to South Carolina for a minute.

[01:08:41] Steve, I think you've got a suggestion for us.

[01:08:43] Yes, I do have a suggestion and I'm kind of curious why this has not been voiced by anyone.

[01:08:50] At least my knowledge it hasn't been.

[01:08:53] Kirby, love your program.

[01:08:55] Far southeast corner of South Carolina, Buford and you visited us about a year ago.

[01:09:00] But my comment is, and I hope this would resonate with many, many people,

[01:09:04] and that is when do we determine if someone is no longer alive?

[01:09:10] So you come upon someone who is unconscious or on the ground,

[01:09:15] EMTs might come, the first thing you do is they check for a pulse, right?

[01:09:20] If they don't have a pulse, then they might do some recessatory things,

[01:09:23] but if a pulse doesn't come back, they are declared dead.

[01:09:26] A person is dead at this time.

[01:09:29] Consequently, when a heartbeat starts in an embryo, that should be a sign of life.

[01:09:37] Heartbeat is life. No heartbeat, no life.

[01:09:41] And so I hope most people would resonate with that because everyone knows if there's no heartbeat, you're dead.

[01:09:49] So we know now from our technology that within 19 days a heartbeat happens,

[01:09:55] and that to me is the start of life.

[01:09:57] Very good.

[01:09:58] You know, in my little booklet here, in a biblical view on abortion,

[01:10:02] I took some of the arguments I've used over the years,

[01:10:05] biblical arguments against abortion, medical arguments against abortion,

[01:10:09] legal arguments against abortion, even philosophical arguments against abortion.

[01:10:13] And in one section there I say one of the arguments could be used,

[01:10:17] which you just talked about, death can be defined by the cessation of a heartbeat.

[01:10:21] A stopped heart was a clear sign of death that the cessation of heartbeat could define death.

[01:10:26] Could the onset of a heartbeat define life?

[01:10:29] This is a hardest-formed amount, the 18th day of the womb,

[01:10:32] and if heartbeat was used to define life, nearly all abortions would be outlawed.

[01:10:37] But I say now physicians use a more rigorous criterion for death

[01:10:41] and that's brainwave activity, a flat EEG or electroencephalograph.

[01:10:46] It's one of the more important criteria to determine death,

[01:10:49] but even there we see the onset of brainwave activities in a fetus about the 40 to the 43rd day.

[01:10:56] So if you're going to just use medical arguments, medicine, I think law, philosophy,

[01:11:03] and certainly the Bible all come in that direction.

[01:11:06] So those are the kind of common sense arguments, Steve,

[01:11:09] that we need to use when we talk to our friends,

[01:11:13] even if they reject the idea of what the Bible has to say,

[01:11:17] there are so many other good arguments against abortion

[01:11:20] and you certainly elucidated one of those.

[01:11:22] So thank you for calling in today.

[01:11:24] All right, thank you so much, Kirby.

[01:11:26] And again, those are the kind of arguments we may have to use.

[01:11:29] Matter of fact, when you look at my booklet,

[01:11:32] I start with a biblical argument because I assume I'm writing to Christians.

[01:11:36] But if you go to the debates I've done over the years

[01:11:39] and I'm thinking of one a while back,

[01:11:41] I was debating the elitian abortionist in that particular state.

[01:11:45] I started out instead by giving medical arguments against abortion,

[01:11:50] then legal arguments.

[01:11:52] You heard where you used some of those just a few minutes ago with Janine

[01:11:55] and then we don't even talk about philosophical arguments,

[01:11:58] although those are powerful as well.

[01:12:00] And so I find that when you're in that environment,

[01:12:04] even if a person says, look, I don't believe the Bible,

[01:12:07] why should I accept the Bible?

[01:12:09] Well, there's some very good reasons you should,

[01:12:11] but we won't get into that.

[01:12:13] The arguments are very clearly in the pro-life direction.

[01:12:18] And so if nothing else, I think Steve has really identified

[01:12:21] the way in which we maybe are engaged in a conversation.

[01:12:25] On Sunday, I was sitting across from an individual who was bringing that up

[01:12:30] and said, you know, we're doing all this incredible neonatology surgery.

[01:12:35] He says, you know, in one hospital room you could have the surgeons doing surgery

[01:12:41] on a fetus in vitro, in utero, and maybe on the 22nd week.

[01:12:48] And just a couple of doors down in another room,

[01:12:51] they could be doing an abortion of a fetus that's 22 weeks old.

[01:12:56] And don't you see the contradiction there?

[01:12:59] And again, he was just thinking of ways that you could begin to,

[01:13:03] if you will, prick the conscience or cause a person to maybe rethink their position

[01:13:08] because this is going to be the ongoing debate on this issue of pro-life.

[01:13:13] But let me, if I can take at least one more phone call before I get into some other issues here.

[01:13:17] Head back out to California this time, KNLB and Kathy, thank you for calling today.

[01:13:23] Yeah, well, I think what's so dangerous about the Democrats saying at birth as well,

[01:13:30] you know, I guess 12, 15.

[01:13:34] Okay, so then when does a baby stop being a baby?

[01:13:38] Is it at two? Is it three? And then if we can go up to two and then three,

[01:13:43] well then can we then say five?

[01:13:47] I mean, when can you decide that a baby is a human being?

[01:13:52] Well, and that's what I've used as one of my philosophical arguments

[01:13:57] because you have, let's take the anthropologist Ashley Monogue

[01:14:02] who even argues that a newborn baby is not truly human or not truly a person

[01:14:08] until he or she is molded by cultural influences later on.

[01:14:13] So as you point out only so well, every argument for abortion could also be very easily

[01:14:20] an argument for infanticide, letting an infant die.

[01:14:25] And of course, you've had some individuals that have even suggested that.

[01:14:29] Dr. Francis Crick, for example, one of the co-discoverers of the structure of DNA,

[01:14:33] wrote in The British Journal Nature that if a child were considered to be legally born

[01:14:38] when it's two days old, we could determine whether or not it should be an acceptable

[01:14:43] member of human society.

[01:14:46] And his argument is look, we can't always identify genetic defects through amniocentesis

[01:14:53] or other kinds of technologies.

[01:14:56] So as a result, let's just let it be born, check it out, and if it passes muster

[01:15:02] then we'll feed it and allow it to live.

[01:15:05] If not, we'll allow it to die.

[01:15:07] Well, you can see that this is the problem with many of these abortion arguments

[01:15:13] and Kathy, you've illustrated the fact that the problem is,

[01:15:16] is if you're pro-abortion, there's really no way that you can allow an exception

[01:15:24] because the moment you allow an exception, because your argument is,

[01:15:28] well, we're not dealing with a person.

[01:15:30] We're not dealing with a true human being in the womb.

[01:15:33] But as soon as you allow for an exception, third trimesters maybe would be outlawed

[01:15:39] or informed consent or parental consent or 24 hour waiting period.

[01:15:45] If you allow any of that, then the argument would be very quickly,

[01:15:50] well why would you allow that if you're saying it's not human in the first place,

[01:15:54] if it's not a person in the first place.

[01:15:56] And I'm using human and person differently because they have been divorced from one another.

[01:16:01] We used to think that a human is a person but just as we talked about a minute ago

[01:16:05] with Janine that's been changed.

[01:16:07] And so that's kind of why you can on the abortion side never allow an exception.

[01:16:13] On the life side you could because you could say,

[01:16:17] look I want to save as many life as possible but if I can even just outlaw every abortion

[01:16:23] after 12 weeks that's good but eventually I want to get to outlaw all of those.

[01:16:29] You can see how you probably could allow some exceptions in the pro-life movement

[01:16:35] but you really can't philosophically for a moment allow them on the pro-abortion side.

[01:16:41] So it's kind of interesting.

[01:16:42] Let's go back to the phone.

[01:16:43] So Libby and Georgia you want to join the conversation.

[01:16:46] What would you like to add?

[01:16:47] Hi Kirby, thanks for taking my call.

[01:16:50] I just want to say that I think this is going to be a deciding factor for a lot of people

[01:16:55] and that Republicans need to get a little more comfortable talking about it.

[01:16:59] It would even help if they had some of your talking points to use.

[01:17:04] But you know just to compare us to the rest of the world where the majority of countries

[01:17:10] have limits on abortion except for like China and North Korea.

[01:17:15] But you know I'm troubled by, I have two post-menopausal women have told me

[01:17:21] that no man is going to tell them what to do with their body

[01:17:24] and I'm thinking well probably no one's trying to do that

[01:17:28] but that's where the mindset is of so many people.

[01:17:31] And a lot of it is messaging because again if your issue is body autonomy

[01:17:36] which is a highly important issue I think you start by saying

[01:17:40] I'm not telling you what to do with your body.

[01:17:42] I'm just simply saying if there's a human being there then we're dealing with two individuals.

[01:17:46] Otherwise you know I'm not going to tell you what kind of feminine products to use

[01:17:50] or what kind of tats you want to have or what kind of anything.

[01:17:55] I mean that's not what this is about.

[01:17:57] You have misunderstood what we're talking about there

[01:18:00] and if there's a human being there there's a different issue

[01:18:03] but otherwise you are free to do whatever you want with your body.

[01:18:06] Well we do have a few limitations but very very few.

[01:18:09] And so I think it's a messaging issue and I'm right

[01:18:12] and you are all right about the fact that we need to get some of these candidates

[01:18:16] go to school on this and know how to speak about that with some clarity.

[01:18:20] So thanks for your call.

[01:18:22] I'm going to take a break and come back with some more right after this.

[01:18:31] You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth.

[01:18:39] A few more minutes.

[01:18:40] Let me just suggest that if you would like to get a copy of this booklet

[01:18:43] I'm holding up here on a biblical point of view on abortion.

[01:18:47] You can read it in about 10 minutes and if you find yourself saying

[01:18:50] I want to read a little bit more we have recommended books like Randy Alcorn

[01:18:54] and Scott Cluzendor from Greg Coco and Kurt Young and others.

[01:18:58] Some books that we have thought were very well done in terms of making

[01:19:02] the case for abortion.

[01:19:03] And as Libby said, you know maybe you want to get a copy of this

[01:19:06] and hand it to one of your candidates and say look you need to understand

[01:19:09] what's in this so that you can make a case.

[01:19:11] For Steve I want to get him certainly a free,

[01:19:14] actually I would give anybody a free copy and just tell them

[01:19:16] that I want to make it free and if they want to charge me

[01:19:19] for the postage fine.

[01:19:20] I'd like to put it in your hands just because I think

[01:19:23] if we're going to be able to make the case for life

[01:19:26] this is an attempt to look at the medical arguments against abortion,

[01:19:30] the legal arguments against abortion,

[01:19:33] the philosophical arguments against abortion

[01:19:35] and of course the biblical arguments.

[01:19:37] And so that is a resource that we have talked about today

[01:19:40] and I hope that you will take the time to contact us.

[01:19:43] You can go to pointofview.net.

[01:19:45] There's a place where you can call 800-347-5151.

[01:19:49] You can send an email povatpointofview.net.

[01:19:52] There are all sorts of ways that you can let someone know

[01:19:55] that you would like a copy of that.

[01:19:57] As long as you give us the address we'll put it in the mail to you

[01:20:00] and I think that is something I want to do

[01:20:02] so that you can be more conversant

[01:20:05] on how to make the case for life.

[01:20:07] Just before we run out of time let me just mention again

[01:20:10] protesters at Columbia University

[01:20:13] want Hamas to burn Tel Aviv to the ground.

[01:20:16] Did you ever think you would hear that on a college campus?

[01:20:20] At least an American college campus

[01:20:23] and that's what we're hearing here as well.

[01:20:26] Protest now at New York University

[01:20:29] telling the police department of New York officers

[01:20:33] because they were actually being arrested

[01:20:36] after they staged a walk out

[01:20:38] to actually told those police officers to go to hell

[01:20:42] and again, what is happening in this country?

[01:20:46] I might also mention another booklet.

[01:20:48] I'll hold this one up on anti-Semitism.

[01:20:50] I probably needed to update it again

[01:20:52] but we had one that came out about four years earlier

[01:20:54] but there are now all these new arguments

[01:20:57] about intersectionality

[01:20:59] and the other day I was hearing interestingly enough

[01:21:02] Alan Dershowitz who is a liberal,

[01:21:05] who is a Democrat, certainly not a conservative

[01:21:08] but he was saying that due to DEI intersectionality

[01:21:12] and DEI this is why we have the problem on campus

[01:21:15] so it's nice to hear somebody who is

[01:21:18] probably a lot brighter than I am.

[01:21:20] Certainly an individual is a professor at Harvard University

[01:21:23] but nevertheless maybe disagree with us on many issues

[01:21:27] although he's been very gracious when we had him on this program

[01:21:30] of saying some of the same things.

[01:21:32] But where does this end?

[01:21:34] I'm not sure where it ends

[01:21:36] because one of the articles I have posted

[01:21:39] is by Jeffrey Bleyhar

[01:21:41] and I mentioned it yesterday

[01:21:43] because he's talking about the fact that

[01:21:45] this that is happening on the Columbia University campus

[01:21:49] is probably going to spread.

[01:21:51] Well he wrote that a couple days ago,

[01:21:53] he's right about that

[01:21:54] but he's saying that it may eventually end up in Chicago

[01:21:58] and what he means by that is that

[01:22:00] while you look at all of the various situations

[01:22:04] that are happening,

[01:22:05] you have the 10th city there

[01:22:07] which was provided by REI

[01:22:09] and those demanding for justice for Gaza

[01:22:12] and free Palestine

[01:22:14] from the river to the sea and all the rest,

[01:22:17] you have then left wing writers

[01:22:20] in the social media sphere

[01:22:22] who are on the New Yorker saying

[01:22:25] Columbia has fallen

[01:22:26] and they can't even believe

[01:22:28] some of the things that have happened

[01:22:30] and of course you've had protests before

[01:22:33] at Columbia University,

[01:22:35] University of California at Berkeley and others

[01:22:38] and he goes through some of that as well

[01:22:40] but he says this all happens in New York

[01:22:44] and it really doesn't affect me

[01:22:46] because I live in Chicago

[01:22:48] and then he comes back and say

[01:22:50] but it's going to come to me as well

[01:22:52] because he says it looks like

[01:22:54] all of this is going to head

[01:22:56] towards one destination, Chicago in August.

[01:23:00] He says in what has proven to be a stroke

[01:23:02] of historically and almost comically

[01:23:05] resonant bad timing

[01:23:07] the Democrats scheduled their national convention

[01:23:10] to re-nominate Joe Biden in Chicago

[01:23:15] and if Israel is still in Gaza

[01:23:18] or to be frank about what the protesters want

[01:23:21] still in the Middle East at all for that matter

[01:23:24] then things are going to go down

[01:23:26] and we're going to have as he said

[01:23:28] an ugly remake of 1968.

[01:23:32] Again, I know many of you were not alive in 1968

[01:23:36] but let me remind you, for those of you

[01:23:38] that don't remember your history

[01:23:40] that this is when there was the midst

[01:23:42] of the anti-war activism

[01:23:45] and of course there had also been some race riots

[01:23:48] so there was a lot of protesters in the streets

[01:23:52] in Chicago

[01:23:54] and again he talks about some of these 1968 images

[01:23:57] of Mayor Daley's cops beating

[01:24:00] radical left wing students with Billy Clubs

[01:24:04] talking about how this probably tipped the election in 1968

[01:24:08] to Richard Nixon

[01:24:10] and how there was just all this controversy

[01:24:13] well of course you don't have Mayor Daley

[01:24:16] but you do have Mayor Brandon Johnson as Mayor

[01:24:19] Alessa, he says an independent individual

[01:24:22] as somebody who is just sort of tied to the

[01:24:25] Chicago teachers unions

[01:24:27] but there seems like this could continue down

[01:24:31] and if you remember four years ago

[01:24:34] of course after the death of George Floyd

[01:24:36] we have what were called the George Floyd riots

[01:24:39] and here now you might have

[01:24:42] what we might call the pro-Hamas

[01:24:45] Palestinian riots

[01:24:48] that could unfold

[01:24:50] and certainly at the Democratic National Convention

[01:24:53] so we'll see how that plays out

[01:24:55] but I think he's pretty accurate

[01:24:57] in his statement in that regard

[01:24:59] one last point I might just make is Cal Thomas's piece

[01:25:02] I've also posted

[01:25:04] which reminds us that you have had

[01:25:07] as we've talked about already

[01:25:09] 108 protesters that were arrested

[01:25:12] in Columbia University

[01:25:14] 133 that were arrested at New York University

[01:25:17] and so there as an attempt by at least some

[01:25:21] individuals to bring some control on the campus

[01:25:24] but I suspect that it's going to go from bad to worse

[01:25:28] but he also points out that Google had to fire 28 employees

[01:25:32] from the offices because they were actually taking over

[01:25:36] workspaces and defacing property and the rest

[01:25:40] so this has moved very quickly

[01:25:43] from the campus to the board rooms

[01:25:46] and to all sorts of other corporate offices

[01:25:49] and if you've ever wondered where this comes from

[01:25:52] in this Sunday in my own Sunday school class

[01:25:54] I'm going to tell the story of three professors

[01:25:57] of Masad, Muhammad Abdo and Hamad Dabashi

[01:26:02] who are all radical pro-Hamas, pro-Hezbollah

[01:26:07] in particular one individual

[01:26:09] even talks about Hamas Hezbollah

[01:26:12] and Islamic Jihad in the individuals

[01:26:15] that are actually teaching on the campus

[01:26:18] so sometimes people ask where is this coming from

[01:26:22] and it's coming from the very classrooms

[01:26:24] of some of these schools

[01:26:26] now you might say why did they hire these individuals

[01:26:29] because I remember many years ago

[01:26:32] when Joseph Masad was up for tenure

[01:26:36] at that time Alan Dershowitz was arguing against it

[01:26:39] because he said he's really not a scholar

[01:26:41] and he's just a radical Muslim

[01:26:43] well the argument was is because these universities

[01:26:47] were receiving so many funds from Arab countries

[01:26:50] having some Arab friendly professors

[01:26:53] helped in their finances

[01:26:56] so this is how it developed

[01:26:58] and as Marlon Maddox used to say

[01:27:00] day after day here on Point of View

[01:27:02] follow the money

[01:27:04] and once you understand that

[01:27:06] you can understand why some of this

[01:27:08] is happening on the campuses today

[01:27:10] well tomorrow we'll have our millennial round table

[01:27:13] Friday we'll have our weekend edition

[01:27:15] I think it's going to be a very busy week

[01:27:17] because we have so much to talk about every single day

[01:27:20] I sat down at a lunch room the other day

[01:27:22] and somebody said well I guess you have nothing to talk about Kirby

[01:27:25] I said we always have more than we have time to do

[01:27:28] but first of all let me thank Megan

[01:27:30] for help engineering the program

[01:27:32] Steve thank you for producing the program

[01:27:34] I hope you enjoyed the conversations day

[01:27:36] with Nancy French and Marjorie Dannenfeld

[01:27:38] sir if you'd like to know more

[01:27:40] you can go to our website Point of View dot net

[01:27:42] get a copy of those booklets that we'd like to make available

[01:27:44] and we'll see you back here tomorrow right here on Point of View

[01:27:49] Is religious freedom still a cornerstone

[01:27:52] of the Republic or has it effectively been crushed

[01:27:55] by the forces of tolerance

[01:27:58] America needs Christians to be informed

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