Point of View April 21, 2025 – Hour 2 : The Millennial Round Table

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View. And now your host for the Millennial Round Table, Chelsea Yeoman.

[00:00:21] Well, welcome back to the Millennial Round Table on this beautiful Monday afternoon, the Monday after Easter, which I hope all of you had just an incredible weekend with your family celebrating our risen Lord Jesus this weekend as I did with mine. We have joining us this next hour a full team. We've got Ethan Watson. You know him well. He's actually started contributing to our show a lot over the last few months.

[00:00:46] He is a Young Voices contributor and incoming JD candidate at Arizona State University. He has his undergraduate degrees in both political science and accounting, which I can't understand how you use both of those parts of your mind, Ethan. But we're so glad that you do for our show. Thanks for joining us today. It's great to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Of course, we also have Alyssa Sonnenberg. She's the host, writer and manager for the Self Evident Podcast, which I'd love to hear about a little bit later on our show today.

[00:01:16] Alyssa also serves as the executive assistant and to the director of the Illinois Family Institute. So thank you for joining us today, Alyssa. Thank you so much for having me. Alyssa, I'm grateful to have both of you. We're going to start with a little bit coming off of the heels of our Easter weekend with an article I found on National Review that talks about it's entitled The Greater Easter Speech That Never Happened.

[00:01:42] And it really did an incredible job summarizing as I'm sure most of our services and pastors yesterday talked about some form of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. But this article I especially appreciated because it brought up an issue that I've always kind of wondered about as a layperson. I'm no theologian, but I am a lawyer. And so for me, my mind naturally goes here curiously.

[00:02:06] When you read in the Gospels about Jesus's final hours and days when he's going through multiple trials, one with Pontius Pilate and then over then Pontius Pilate almost tries to absolve himself in a way of having to say yes to having Jesus crucified before the to the Sanhedrin. Sanhedrin. Jesus then goes, and if you can follow this through all the Gospels, he then goes back to he goes down before the Sanhedrin.

[00:02:36] Then he goes before Pontius Pilate. And then they continue to ask him questions. Are you the Messiah, the Son of God, the Blessed One? And Jesus has very few words to say in these final hours. If you look at the Gospels beforehand, you've got full sermons from Jesus, his response to lots of questions. Some were authentic questions. Some were questions by, you know, the local Jewish rabbis who wanted to trip him up and trick him.

[00:03:01] And this before the Sanhedrin, he's shockingly silent and doesn't give a lot of answers. When he is asked, for instance, in the court, you know, are you are you not going to answer? He remains silent and gives no answer. Are you the Messiah, the Son of God, the Blessed One? And Jesus speaks up and he does say, I am. And he says, and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.

[00:03:28] But that's it. And then in Mark, they go on to accuse him of blasphemy and condemn which would have been worthy of death. But he really doesn't say much. And then finally, when he's questioned by, we know, Pontius Pilate in Matthew 27, 11, they ask if he's the king of the Jews. He's Jesus says, you've said so. And so this has always stood out to me because not only, you know, does the lawyer in me think that everybody's worthy of a defense,

[00:03:55] particularly in court, particularly someone as innocent as Jesus was. And then as Pontius Pilate ultimately declared him to be, they did not crucify him because he was found guilty of anything. They crucified him as a tradeoff for Barnabas, who was a war criminal, a guerrilla war criminal. Do you guys notice this? Has this ever been something y'all have wondered about? I'm going to start with you, Alyssa.

[00:04:19] Yeah, I mean, I think we all in our human capacities, when we read the gospel accounts of Jesus's appearance before the different courts, our natural inclination is maybe one of frustration of, oh, why don't you just say the truth and that you're not guilty of all of these charges? And yet I go back to the beauty of what Christ came to be, what he came to do, that his silence was completely intentional and purposeful.

[00:04:48] I think of John 10, 18, where he tells Peter that no one has the authority to take my life from me. I lay it down as my own account. And again, in Matthew 26, 53, after Peter had just cut off Malchus's ear and he tells Peter to put his sword away, he tells him that he has access to legions of angels at his disposal that can defend him if need be. But we read in Isaiah 53 that like a sheep before, his shearers were silent, so Jesus did not open his mouth.

[00:05:16] And so I think that's the beauty of those stories, that in our human capacity, we look at those with maybe, like I said before, a little bit of frustration. But when we recenter ourselves over why Jesus came, why he was born and the purpose behind him coming, it's just so much more beautiful that he went to the cross so intentionally and so purposefully for our redemption. It does. It is indicative of his authority, which he said to Pontius Pilate.

[00:05:45] One thing he did say, because Pontius said, don't you know I have the ability to free you or put you to death? And he said, you have no authority but what the Father has given you over me. And, you know, that shows not only blind trust and obedience that Christ had, but he suffered deeply and immensely in that obedience, which is something I think believers were, you know, we all grow up in a Western church where I don't know that I remember there ever being much of a sermon on the role of suffering in the life of a believer.

[00:06:15] But when if you are going through a trial and a tribulation and you are in the midst of a storm, it should be a comfort that it's an honor to do that because our own Savior suffered and that there is a role in that in our lives. Ethan, I don't know if that brought rung a bell for anything for you or if there's lessons that you had to be learned through this article that we have on pointofview.net.

[00:06:38] Certainly. Well, I think what you're saying about kind of his acceptance of his fate with dignity and solemnity is a call to us to find our place in the world and take those trials and tribulations on as well and do so with dignity. I think that's spot on. And I really liked what Alyssa had to say about the emotions you feel when you're reading or even like watching over the weekend as I was the movie The Passion of the Christ. You feel frustration. And for me, it was more like sadness.

[00:07:04] You're like you're almost hoping like, oh, we have this beloved main character because the Bible is a narrative in addition to a historical account. We have this beloved main character and you're almost rooting for him like, oh, he could get away here. Oh, he could say this. Why doesn't he just change their minds knowing that he's doomed? It's a tragedy. This section of the Bible is and the emotions that invokes are just so powerful and really just accomplish that goal of imparting on us, the reader or the audience like this was such a big deal.

[00:07:32] This was such a sacrifice. This was such a just appalling thing in the brokenness of humanity. I think it's a it's a beautiful narrative element in addition to all the spiritual significance that's already been discussed. Well, beautifully said, Ethan. I think that's, you know, the truth is it should imprint upon our heart the love that he has for us, that he was willing to withstand all of this and go through this. And and it wasn't without anguish. You know, the words used when he was praying in the Garden of Gethsemane the night before he died

[00:08:01] was words of the deepest level of depression and anguish was the word that was used in that language. And to describe that he felt it all, but he did it all willingly and he did it because he loves us. And ultimately he wanted to conquer sin and death. Ultimately, that was our own. That is our only right path as humanity to salvation and to heaven is through a pure and perfect sacrifice,

[00:08:27] which Jesus was. And I think it's so against our culture and selves as we as we engage in social media wars and Twitter wars to not defend ourselves, but to believe as believers just to stand on truth. It's a great example for us. Don't go anywhere after our short break. We'll be back.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. While there's a pause in tariffs, at least for most countries, I thought it might be worth putting some facts on the table. Different groups may disagree about the value and impact of tariffs, but at least we might agree about some basic facts. Let's look at our domestic market. Americans only make up about four percent of the world's population. That means that 96 percent of our potential customers live outside the U.S.

[00:09:25] Notice that I say potential since tariffs and trade restrictions in other countries prevent most American companies from selling goods and services in those countries. Second, let's look at the financial market size. America's GDP is approximately 26 percent of the world's total. That means nearly three-fourths of the global economy is outside of our borders. Also, I might mention that China's GDP is nearly 17 percent, and that explains why so much of this debate centers on the U.S. and China.

[00:09:55] Third, tax cuts will likely pass Congress. Stephen Moore argues that tariff revenue will help pay for the extension of the 2017 tax cuts. He acknowledges that the tariff rates that the president put on the table are higher than any of those at any time in the last century, but believes the tariffs will offset any negative financial impact of the tax cuts. He even suggests President Trump propose a 15 percent flat tax on everything.

[00:10:21] Steve Forbes and Stephen Moore have advised the president to announce a 15 percent plan. That would be 15 percent on tariffs, 15 percent personal income tax, 15 percent corporate tax, and a 15 percent capital gains, dividends, and death tax. Is that next? If so, we're in for a rocky economic road over the next few months. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] For a free booklet on a biblical view on big data, go to viewpoints.info slash data. That's viewpoints.info slash data. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Well, welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable, where I am joined by Ethan Watson and Alyssa Sonnenberg.

[00:11:11] And we're going to turn our discussion now to one that is complex, but we're going to do our best to discuss it from both religious, political viewpoints, as well as maybe generational viewpoints. There's some differentiations here in the stats. And that is this idea of Christian Zionism and Israeli Zionism. And that's a complicated issue I can't wait to dive into. Don't forget to go to pointofview.net, where you can read up on our articles and so many resources,

[00:11:37] including ones that our host, Kirby Anderson, has written many times. They're all published there. And you can also go to Facebook at Point of View Radio on Facebook. Like us, comment. We like to hear from you. You can watch and view us live or even save this conversation for later. But now we're going to turn to this article that we have on pointofview.net. I put this on here almost as an oppositional argument that I don't think is mainstream in most evangelical Christian circles,

[00:12:06] which is why I chose this one. It's from the American Conservative. And it's entitled What Would Jesus Do? And Is There Anything Particularly Christian About Christian Zionism? So I'm going to start with a few definitions. I think it's important for us to all work from the same set of facts, not just opinions. And that is to begin with a definition on what Christian Zionism means. It is defined as Christian support for the Zionist cause, which is self-described definition. So I'm going to go further.

[00:12:34] The return of the Jewish people to its biblical homeland in Israel. And so that is saying that the land of Israel, based on Old Testament covenant between God and Abraham, that the land, the physical land in Israel was given to the Jewish people. And that the Jewish people are set apart, according to this covenant, that they are blessed and that they are consecrated to God, that they are his people.

[00:13:01] And then what transpired throughout scripture, and there's two Christian viewpoints on this. One is replacement theory, which would be that when the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah, and he was a Jewish Messiah from the house of David, that the Jews rejected Jesus, and that the Gentiles were then grafted in as part of this blessing.

[00:13:23] Both viewpoints agree to that, that we are adopted as sons and daughters of Christ into that Jewish heritage and blessing for salvation. When salvation was extended to the Gentiles and we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior. But there's two theories. One is that we then replaced the Jewish people as God's chosen, and they are not Christian Zionists. And then the next viewpoint would be that there is no Christianity without Judaism,

[00:13:49] and that because of that, you know, there are four fathers in the faith, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, and that we are almost one in the same, and that those who bless Israel will be blessed, and we should continue to maintain the goals of that original covenant. So that's a lot. I'm going to start with you, Ethan, on this one. I'm not sure how familiar you are with Christian Zionism, but I think that in our younger generations that this is less talked about and less adhered to,

[00:14:17] and that there's actually been, according to studies, only 30% of Gen Z and millennials actually support Christian Zionism, or this idea that Israel should have the entirety of the land, including Gaza and West Bank. What are your thoughts on that? Do you have anything you would like to expand on? Certainly. I mean, in truth, it is a complex issue, and I read the article that's linked on the website, and I have friends that have family in Palestine, and I have friends who's,

[00:14:46] I know people who have siblings in the IDF, so I kind of am exposed to both sides of this one. And there's really compelling theological arguments either way on this topic. I'm not sure I'm qualified to make a theological argument, but I would like to put forth a way to think about this conflict and international relations in general that I think has worked for me and helped me to be ideologically consistent on this one. I tend to ask myself whenever I'm confronted with a conflict, like Israel-Palestine,

[00:15:16] where there's these deep ethnic traditions coming up against one another, is I ask myself, well, what stake do I have in this, right? And my interests are I'm an American Christian. So what do I want as a Christian? I want Christian holy sites to be preserved. I want Christians to be able to go there and worship freely. Israel seems to have checked that box pretty well, I'd say, these days. And then my other interest is what's good for America?

[00:15:44] And having a Western-style democracy in the region is good for America because it counterbalances Iran. I'm not even making an argument for Israel as an ethnic nation-state there, but the presence of a Western democracy in the Middle East is very good for us as Americans. And so that's how I've reconciled both of these sides. And like I said, I'm not a theologian. I'm working on it.

[00:16:10] But that's the framework that I view these complex ethnic conflicts through is what's my stake in it? What are my interests? And then beyond that, I'm very non-interventionist on American foreign policy as a general rule. Well, that's really interesting because you're alluding to how many facets are involved here because there's, of course, the religious adherence to not just biblical adherence in scripture,

[00:16:36] but there's also this idea we discussed a little bit on the last hour where locally this is more than a political or a geopolitical proxy war issue with Hamas and Hezbollah. This is deeply rooted in their religious traditions. And when we discuss how Iran and some of these extremist Islamic groups say from the mountains to the sea or the oceans to the sea, they're talking about eradicating the Jewish population through genocide.

[00:17:06] They're not talking about a land grab because for them, you know, I think in our Western terms, Alyssa, it's easy for us to always think in terms of, oh, just let them have their land and their territory and we can just appease everybody and split this fairly down the middle. But that's not, in fact, the religious goals of the local groups there. The religious goals of the group there are to eradicate the Jewish population. I'm alluding to extremist Islam. I'm not referring to, you know, innocent Palestinian civilians who are, in fact,

[00:17:35] very favorable of the Israeli government for giving them as much as humanitarian aid as they can without we've heard the reports of Hamas interfering with that aid, which I'm getting off track. But Alyssa, what are your initial thoughts? And even think through generationally, what's this disconnect between the loyalty of the Christian Zionists in Israel and our generation, which we're seeing these increase in very sympathetic Palestinian protests?

[00:18:03] Yeah, I think you pointed out something really important, that in these pro-Palestinian protests, you pointed out that they're chanting from sea to sea or from the mountain to the sea and indicating their desire to eradicate the Jewish people. So there is, we have to be aware of the fact that there is a racist bent towards or against Israel, I should say, and it's been noted before, that Israel is the size of New Jersey.

[00:18:31] Imagine you're the size of New Jersey and every single land mass around you wants you to be eradicated. And so the Israel-Palestinian conflict, like you noted, Chelsea, is not as simple as a land grab. And since 1947, of when Israel was officially declared to be its own sovereign nation again, Israel has offered Palestine their own state five times, and they have rejected it time and time again. They are not interested in having their own land.

[00:19:00] We saw what they did to Gaza once they were able to have that land. It is a horrible place to live. There are many humanitarian crises that were going on even before the October 7 attack. And so getting back more so to the theological aspect, I can kind of sympathize with the Christian Zionist cause because people who tend to go that way are more dispensational in their theology.

[00:19:26] I personally am more covenantal in my theology if we're going to get into that aspect of it. So I would not necessarily ascribe to a pro-Israel stance because of their ethnicity, so to speak. I am more so pro-Israel because I think Ethan pointed out something very important, that the interests of my biblical values are more vested in having a democratic republic in the Middle East,

[00:19:54] more so than a Palestinian government. That's really interesting from a political standpoint that that's the hook because it's something I want to talk about a little bit more after this break. We're going to be on in a minute. But that is how can we discuss this with younger generations? And culturally, there's such a swing. I've been shocked. I am an elder millennial, but I have been shocked by how our generation was very, very impacted by September 11th.

[00:20:24] You know, terrorism was the first time it was on our grounds in a big way that we saw and impacted our lives and the wars that followed. And so Islamic extremism is a very real, concrete threat, I would think, to my generation. And what instead we're seeing is in the younger generation, this rise of pro-Palestinian sentiment. But it's not just pro-Palestinian sentiment.

[00:20:48] It's almost pro-Hamas, pro-Hezbollah, which is why we've been seeing deportation from certain leaders of those protests who are issuing Islamic propaganda, extremist propaganda at those protests on American soil. And it led me to really think that there's not an equal playing field here, you know, when it comes to even just a political analysis of Israel versus Palestine. You know, Israel is expected, you know, in many ways. There's there's some hypocrisy there.

[00:21:16] And we'll talk about that more when we get after this break, get back after this break. So don't go anywhere. It was not that long ago that censorship appeared to be almost inevitable. Free speech was being attacked and strangled in many places. And some of us wondered if this was the end.

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[00:23:10] And now, here again, Chelsea Yeoman. Well, welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable, where Ethan Watson and Alyssa and I are discussing this idea of Christian Zionism, which is one that I think was particularly prevalent in the Christian evangelical movement in the 1990s, and one that I was really familiar with, you know, in our church culture in the South, the Bible Belt, where there's very, very pro-Israel sentiment from Christians for several reasons.

[00:23:38] One out of the biblical belief or viewpoint that that's what we as believers are called to do is to support Israel. But then also politically, and we've started to dabble in that, so I want to expand on that in this show. But I'm really honing in on what is a disconnect between that generation and the younger generations, which we're seeing such pro-Palestinian, pro-Hamas, and pro-Hezbollah sentiment. And that goes beyond, I think, humanitarian concern for Palestinians in the region,

[00:24:05] which I think we rightfully, whether you're right, left, Christian, Buddhist, you name it, I think we should all be upset over malnutrition increasing among children and women in that region. We should all be upset about war crimes. We should all be upset about death toll, right, on either side. You know, we're called to desire peace for all people groups, regardless of who they are. And so there's a lot of misinformation out there.

[00:24:32] And I think one of the reasons for this, Alyssa, would be that our silos almost inform our viewpoint at this phase. Our algorithms know what we'd like to see. And so you see the younger generation, the pro-Palestinian sentimental generation, and they're believing everything they're reading about war crimes and crimes against humanity being committed by Benjamin Netanyahu. And there is what I would describe as almost a, I don't know how to describe it,

[00:25:01] maybe like an idea that it's not an equal playing field that Israel is operating on. There's an assumption that Israel should be allowed to have Hamas in their backyard conducting terrorist threats, bombing them constantly, and really not do much about it, or it's viewed as retribution. Where, on the other hand, Hamas, you know, can use human shields and hide their weaponry in hospitals, which we've seen, or even under schools.

[00:25:29] And then we've all seen videos, I think, of Palestinian civilians in the streets decrying Hamas and blaming them for the horrific situations they're under in Gaza. So not only is it religiously messy, it's politically messy. But, Alyssa, I wanted to talk about that, you know, this idea that there's almost some hypocrisy when it comes to the media and their coverage of Israel versus Hamas. Oh, absolutely.

[00:25:55] And I think you pointed out something really important when it comes to the younger generation, that we can't forget the influence that professors have on college kids. We see a lot of these protests happening on college campuses where they're being told by their professors, by their peers around them, that, like you were saying, Chelsea, Israel is operating unfairly, that they've somehow monopolized the region to work in their favor.

[00:26:22] And what we see in reality is that Hamas and these terrorist organizations are really the ones to blame for the humanitarian crises that are happening. I mean, we think back to the October 7 attacks and the fact that Israel warned the Gaza Strip to evacuate all civilians because they were going to conduct a counter-strike. And the fact that Hamas did not allow anyone to leave.

[00:26:49] And that, of course, put Israel in a bad light saying, oh, how dare they bomb women and children, et cetera. And so we so often don't see in the media the true side of the story of how Hamas and these terrorist organizations are monopolizing both sides in the media to paint this picture. Like you were saying, Israel has somehow unfairly has a hand in the game in their defense of their own country.

[00:27:18] Well said, Ethan. Anything you would like to add? Yeah, absolutely. I think first it's important to point out that you're right, in no way here are we minimizing what's, you know, obviously a really bad situation. I think it's actually a good reminder for all of us that this is the natural state of man, right? Like for most of our history, this is how disputes have been settled, right? Bloody conflict and just mass suffering.

[00:27:43] It was only Judeo-Christian values and Western values more broadly that pulled us out of that mire. And the reason why I have a hard time getting behind the Free Palestine movement is because the Palestine Liberation Organization has always been opposed to Western civilization. If you go back to the 70s, they were training communist guerrillas fighting in Germany and Italy, which doesn't seem to have a lot to do with Palestine.

[00:28:06] And now there's a weird synergy between the pro-Palestine protests and LGBT movements and communists. And I mean, left is a mix with strange bedfellows, but I don't think any of those people will be terribly welcome in the Gaza Strip. But what that tells me is that it's not really just about an ethnic conflict over a piece of land, because that happens all the time every day across the world.

[00:28:31] This is about pushing a narrative that Western civilization, the society that has given you and I and everybody that we know a beautiful, blessed life, it's about denigrating that society. And that's something that I just can't get behind. And, you know, I have my own problems with Israel. I think we probably give them a little too much money. I don't like propping up any foreign governments, but Israel doesn't seem to be diametrically opposed to the things I hold dear, like at least the Palestinian leadership appears to be.

[00:29:00] Yeah, that's an interesting point because we are seeing, you know, the rise. And we talked about this our last hour, so don't forget to go back and listen on pointofview.net, where Petrina and I did discuss, you know, the ability or increasing ability of these platforms to criticize Israel openly. We talked about Candace Owens, which is its own hot mess expressed, for lack of a better term. But to really be able to look at this and say it is hard when there's not an easy answer.

[00:29:28] This is a multi-millennia geopolitical religious issue. And there's the hubris of American presidents. Every single one has done it time and time again to come in and say after 1948 that they are going to create peace in the region. There's a lot of hubris. They've not been successful yet because of the history there. And that's something that's difficult, I think, for people to grapple with when, you know, we as younger generations, it's a less analytical generation.

[00:29:56] I'm willing to do less research, mostly gets information, whether it's right or wrong or indifferent online from social media, which cannot always be accurate. To say, objectively, it's good to question death tolls. It's good to question what humanitarian aid is and is not going in and out and why. But at the end of the day, if this peace resolution continues to be rejected by Hezbollah and Hamas,

[00:30:23] that Israel is now officially talking about going in and fully taking over Gaza because they refuse to give over the hostages continually. And there's a lot of pressure being mounted on Hamas to give these kidnapped individuals over, the hostages over. And they refuse to do that.

[00:30:46] And so it's leading to, I would say, it's expanding this narrative that Prime Minister Netanyahu is going to use this as an opportunity to perhaps take over Gaza and the West Bank, which has been carved out for Palestinians. And it's something that's mounting support by Christian evangelicals. Even at the there was a big conference, the NRB National Religious Broadcasters Conference,

[00:31:10] where there was a giant petition going around to try to get everybody to say this is Israel's opportunity to take over. And I don't know what you all think about that. Alyssa, I'll end with you on this segment on your thoughts on the wisdom of that. Or is it even feasible? But would it lead to ultimate stability, which should be our goal and interest as America in the Israel state, is peace and stability, at least with our strongest ally in the Middle East? Sure.

[00:31:39] And I guess I don't want to give the wrong impression that just because I adhere to a more covenantal theology, that I am against Israel in some way. Like Ethan was saying, I'm very pro-Israel when it comes to their right to defend themselves. And specifically your question about Israel once again owning the God of Strip, I am 100% in support of that, simply because from a historical and legal basis,

[00:32:04] I believe that land to rightfully belong to Israel. And you can go back in Scripture to see that, that that was part of the landmass that God gave to Israel. And so I don't think it would be Zionists or extremists in that sense to say that they have the right to retake that land. Now, whether or not that would cause peace to be in the region, I honestly don't think peace will ever reign in the Middle East until Christ returns.

[00:32:31] That just seems to be very clear, like you were saying. Since 1948, all the presidents have said that they're going to bring peace to the region. But ultimately, humankind, no matter what policies we enact, no matter what trade agreements we enact, no matter what peace deals we enact, only peace can come from Christ and the hope that he brings. And true peace will never happen on this side of heaven. So I think that's also important to understand. Well said. Well said, Alyssa.

[00:33:01] Well, if you would like to read both sides of this argument, you can go to pointofview.net where the American Conservative article is up. And that would be the more sympathetic to the Palestinian movement and saying we as Christians and believers should oppose what Israel is doing in the region. But if you want to read the other side, Christians United for Israel has several fact sheets on their website that helped me out. And one was entitled the continuous Jewish presence in the land of Israel for the last 2000 years.

[00:33:30] Lots of facts there. So you can go to CUFI.org if you want to read up more on that. Don't go anywhere. One last topic when we get back after our break.

[00:33:39] You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth. Welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable. We're going to wrap up our discussion today.

[00:34:07] I started the hour saying we're equal opportunity critics here. So we're going to start by a topic that I think is really important for you, no matter where you lean politically, to not just understand as American citizens or voters, but in general, the role of executive power in our lives is a very important one. That is the power of the presidency, your governor's office to administer laws, to be over law enforcement.

[00:34:33] And in the case of the president of the United States, of course, he is the commander in chief. He's over international war controversies. Only Congress, of course, can actually declare war. But starting with really the presidential power framework, it begins in the U.S. Constitution, which established a system, as we've all heard, of checks and balances among the executive, the legislative, and then the judicial branch, those three. And the presidential powers includes, like I said, enforcing the laws, commanding the military.

[00:35:01] And he really oversees foreign policy and executes executive orders. What I want to talk about today is really this, if I'm a political science nerd, which I am. And Ethan, I know you are and Alyssa are as well. Just a political analysis of how President Trump approaches so differently than many presidents before his role as our chief executive in the country.

[00:35:26] President Trump moves at breakneck speed and quickly and efficiently as he would if he were leading a corporation, except for that corporation, you know, is a 300 million person country. So in so many respects, he's done so much quickly. The news cycle, 24-hour news cycle is more like a four-hour news cycle, I would say, at this point.

[00:35:47] But there are other aspects to the way he's running this country, I would argue, as a CEO, that don't exactly comport with, I think, the constitutional parameters around the role of the presidency in the United States. He is issuing more executive orders and actions and declaring national emergencies to justify those executive actions, which would, if national emergencies is under his purview, he can then have a lot more wiggle room to do what he wants.

[00:36:16] He's also, you know, a little bit resistant to congressional oversight. He's claiming broad executive privileges every time Congress sends over an oversight probe. And then most recently, the article we have on pointofview.net today discusses the deportation of, you know, an illegal immigrant who was an MS, a gang member here who was deported.

[00:36:41] But then when the United States Supreme Court heard the appeal, they ruled that he was deported wrongfully without due process of law, which is guaranteed under our Constitution. At that point, he had already left the United States and President Trump's legal team is saying there's nothing we can do to get him back. He's now, you know, under the control of El Salvador and he's deporting without due process of law. And so there I think he's testing the bounds.

[00:37:11] It's safe to say of the constitutionality of his role in Ethan. I know you're our libertarian friend, I think. So I would love to get, as our resident freedom fighter, your viewpoints on President Trump and how he's treating the role of the executive. Yeah, absolutely. It's really been a fascinating time to be a politics watcher in this country.

[00:37:33] I see President Trump taking to a logical extreme what we've seen executives on both sides of the aisle doing for any – at least as long as I've been involved in politics, which is fairly recent. I'm only 23. But the power of the pen, the executive order, the asserting of executive privilege has only been ramping up, certainly since the 90s at least. And it's concerning. I mean, it's a dangerous precedent, right? And you have Joe Biden saying he's going to forgive student loan debt regardless of what the Supreme Court says.

[00:38:01] And now you have Trump deporting an illegal who the Supreme Court says, no, you have to bring back. And really what I hear from this case, and specifically this fight over the quote-unquote Maryland man, as I like to call him, is – I think it's more of an indictment, actually, of our government and just the bulk of laws and hoops that have to be jumped through to fulfill basic functions

[00:38:24] than it is an indictment of President Trump because he's loud, he's using his bully pulpit to bring attention to issues, and a lot of it's going to get walked back. But what's disheartening to me is that one of the core things that I think government should do, as someone who tends to be a little more libertarian on at least the size of the federal government, is I think the government is responsible for securing our borders. And when I see the government getting in its own way for doing that, or activist judges lurking around every corner,

[00:38:53] interfering with the removal of someone who, by all accounts, was a gang-affiliated individual who was possibly a domestic abuser, I feel like the law in that case has ceased to direct us towards the good, and it's time to take a look at those processes. Now, in the meantime, you've got to be by the book, but I also don't think the solution to this deviation from procedure is fly the guy back

[00:39:18] and pretend like this is where he belongs when he's a citizen of El Salvador. That's my take on it. Yes, you're right, because there's the principle of the issue, which is what I like to get to the core of, and then there's just the effect of we want – he's saying, I have a mandate. I was voted into office. There's a mandate. And I do think it's difficult for someone with a more corporate background, for lack of a better phrase, Alyssa,

[00:39:46] to wrap their minds around this isn't carte blanche. There are three other branches of government. And when you say, Ethan, that it's almost an indictment of our government, I immediately think of Congress, because under the Constitution, Congress would be the balance and the check for him. We see the U.S. Supreme Court stop gapping constitutional violations on their end, and those were unanimous decisions, by the way, which means they weren't even close, not down party lines. But presumably Congress, who has the power of the purse, the power to declare war,

[00:40:15] the power to pass immigration laws and reform, they should be doing their job to do that. And the president's executive power, I don't think, would be expanded as much as it is right now if Congress were acting. And if those executive orders are legitimate, then they're kind of replacing, in my mind, the legislative authority of Congress, who is at an absolute stalemate. Are they not, Alyssa? I would absolutely agree with that.

[00:40:44] But it's more so an indictment on our congressional process than maybe it is on the executive branch. Now, I agree that it's a little bit dangerous with all these executive orders, because we want these things to be passed into law. We want them to go through the House and the Senate and to go through their due process. And yet what the American people voted for is they wanted a president to get things done.

[00:41:09] And Trump proved that in his first term, and he's proving that even more in his second term. So when he says that the people voted for this, he's actually absolutely right. When Caroline Levitt says that the people voted for MS-13 gang members who are illegal aliens, who are a national threat to safety to our communities, we voted to get them out of our country, she's absolutely right about that. And what the American people have been frustrated over over the past decade is that we have a Congress

[00:41:37] that just sits around and effectively feels like it's do nothing. They don't get anything done. They use all of our taxpayer dollars to fund things that we don't want them to fund. I mean, we've all seen the doge accounts of what our taxpaying dollars have gone to over the past decade. And so, like Ethan and you were saying, Chelsea, that this is an indictment on Congress, that what the American people are looking at, well, if Congress won't do it, I'm glad President Trump is going to do it.

[00:42:07] Yes, it's so hard because if you remove political leniencies from this issue, Alyssa, I would actually say I like to see a president who is adhering to the constitutional bounds because at the same time, you know, every expansion of executive authority and power that President Trump does is one that ultimately the next president could do. And we did see this with President Obama, who was, you know, really, really expanding executive orders

[00:42:36] at a rate that no other president had done before. And, you know, that precedent has now been established, and we see future presidents also operating under that. You may be asking, well, what could Congress do if they wanted to constrain any abuse of power? One, we've got the courts doing that, so you can guarantee President Trump's going to be challenged in court by his enemies all the time. And two, Congress can review his activity. Thank you so much for being on our show today, Alyssa and Ethan.

[00:43:03] Please go to pointofview.net where you can see their Twitter handles and figure out where to support them and also look at our articles from today. Have a great Monday. The Bible tells us not to worry, and yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today. Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry. God gives us a next step. He says we need to pray. But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult,

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