The Future of Sight: Stem Cells, Bionic Eyes, and Tech That Heals

[00:00:18] Happy to have you along my fellow tech enthusiasts. I'm Sam Bushman, Jay Harrison with me. Welcome, sir. Hi Sam, how's it going? Absolutely fantastic. We keep an eye on tech so you don't have to. Remember, NetworkProvidersInc.com is the sponsor of this show and we want tech to serve you, not own you. Welcome to the show. Hope you're doing fantastic.

[00:00:38] This is an interesting twist on tech, Jay. And again, sometimes we talk about our frustrations. Sometimes we talk about changes in the industry. Sometimes we talk about new technologies. Sometimes we talk about, sometimes we talk about things that are not even tech, they're low tech. Because sometimes low tech or less tech is better tech, believe it or not. Absolutely. It doesn't always have to be so complicated that you can't, you know, for example, I'll just use the word processor example. You know, word is a very big word processor. It's like an ocean liner, right?

[00:01:08] Yes, it is. Well, a lot of people have released products like Jarte and several others that they're like, hey, why not have a speedboat rather than an ocean liner for your word processor? I mean, all you got to really do is type and spell check and bold and change a few things. You don't need 90% of the features. Anyway, so our goal is to try to always find that kind of sweet spot for you to where tech is simple and easy to use and everything else. And so one quick recommendation I'd have is there's a thing called LACRM.

[00:01:38] And LACRM stands for less annoying CRM, Jay. Yes. Yes. And believe it or not, these people have found a sweet spot. Phenomenal. Very simple. We've talked about this on the program before a little bit, but why is it so good? Because it's only 15 bucks a user period end of paragraph. There's no different plans. There's just look, every user is $15.

[00:01:56] And it's inexpensive and it's powerful. I mean, it's an incredible database online. It's got a bunch of standard features. It's got pipelines for sales and all kinds of stuff. It's got great reports. It's got, and you can add custom fields. You can, I mean, it's one of the best databases online. And they just say, we're less annoying because we're so simple. We've got one plan, 15 bucks. You need another user, $15 a month. There's no discounts. There's no changes. They don't want to charge you yearly. They just want to charge you monthly.

[00:02:24] They have videos to show you how to use every bit of their service. They have literally incredible online and phone support with, with American or great English speaking tech support people that know what they're talking about. I mean, it's just an amazing piece of software that they know what they're talking about. There are people that actually use it every day. They know how to fix it. They're not just following a flow chart or something like that or trying to help you. Like, you know, they, they're really knowledgeable and that's the important part.

[00:02:51] Anyway, and the hard part for tech support. And so to that cause, I want less annoying software everywhere. Right. Anyway, I digress. I just wanted to throw that out. So people understand sometimes when we complain last show, we talked a lot about Skype and a lot about, you know, outlook and some of these different things and the confusion surrounding all those things. It reminds me of Amazon's frustration free packaging. That's what we need. Frustration free software. Amen. That's exactly what we need. And so we're always pushing for that because we believe that

[00:03:20] that's where great solutions start is with someone going, you know what? I can't take this anymore. And LACRM got that done. They're like, man, all these other contact managers or whatever you want to call it, customer relationship managers. They're just frustrating. They're so complicated. And these guys just built this less annoying CRM. Check it out online. It's incredible. And so I think that the more we kind of complain constructively, the, the more things will change for the better.

[00:03:46] I really think that's how Google is built. Jay, that they, okay, let's have this vanilla search engine. Boom. Simple as all get out. Everybody loved it and flocked to it. Right. Yeah. I would agree with that a hundred percent that they have made things simple, clean, and people really like that interface. I mean, compare the Google of even 15 years ago to, um, it's competitors like Alta Vista or Yahoo, or, you know, you just have an entire page filled with everything and you can't hardly figure out what you're doing.

[00:04:13] And yeah, they, they, they set the stage for that clean look. I digress, except I really want people to understand the reason we focus on these things the way we do sometimes. So we hope we, uh, are, you know, commiserating together a little bit, but we also hope to provide real solutions and point to, to actionable answers and productivity opportunities for you and your families and your businesses, uh, et cetera. Well, sometimes we talk about things that are just totally off topic in a way, sometimes space, sometimes we'll listen to this headline.

[00:04:44] One. Okay. Sight restored to people blind in eye accidents using quote new stem cell treatment, Jay. Oh, that's pretty interesting. Andy Cornley about this or whatever. So they've literally managed to, um, inject this, um, let's see, what's it called? Stem cells.

[00:05:09] They took it from the patient's healthy eye and transplanted it in the unhealthy eye and people who suffered blind or I'm sorry, eye injuries that made them blind with a new form of stem cell research. Now they can see Jay prepare or repairing, um, what they thought once was irreversible damage.

[00:05:33] I'd be a little cautious about that though. I don't know that I would want if I, let's say I had one good eye and one not working eye. I don't know that I would want to risk damage to the good one to try to fix the bad one. You know what I'm saying? So they're, they're taking stem cells from the good eye and putting it in the bad eye to replace the cells that were destroyed. Yeah, but can't you get stem cells from all over? Like I've heard, even heard stem cells in T's and other areas. Like, I don't know. Maybe you have to have.

[00:06:00] Yeah, I know what you mean. And stem cells can cover a bunch of places. I'm just telling you in this example, this study, they're taking it from the good eye and putting it into the bad eye. Wow. It's intrepid. They say the quote experimental procedure safely restored corneal surfaces in 14 patients who are followed for 18 months.

[00:06:20] And, um, they say, researchers say this quote clinical trial shows that the experimental treatment for injuries to the cornea is both feasible and safe, Jay. That's incredible that people can get that done. Now, I guess this was developed at what they call Massachusetts eye and ear. It's a special hospital in Boston.

[00:06:47] And, uh, they say that it's the first stem cell, um, therapy for the eye developed in the United States ever. However, the research team explained that the groundbreaking procedure consists of moving, removing stem cells from a healthy eye with a biopsy, expanding them into a cellular tissue.

[00:07:12] Uh, they call it a tissue graft in a new manufacturing process that takes two to three weeks. So I don't know if they grow it in a lab or whatever. Yeah, grow it on a scaffold sort of thing. Anyway, takes two to three weeks. Then they surgically implant the graft into the bad eye. And, uh, anyway, so it's a big old long story.

[00:07:38] And, um, they say it completely restored the cornea in 50% of the patients. Um, the increase to 79% successful rate if they waited. Um, anyway, they say at 18 months, the success of this, they call it Calic, I think. C-A-L-E-C. It's all capital letters though. So I'm sure it's an acronym. Yeah.

[00:08:07] Calic, uh, which turned out to be 92% success rate after 18 months, Jay. Calic, that's pretty good odds. That's incredible. It's incredible odds. Yeah. They say it presented a high safety profile with no serious events in even donor recipient ties. Anyway, I guess somebody had an infection that didn't count because it was due to, uh, contact lens usage.

[00:08:36] But the other adverse events were minor events were minor and resolved quickly. And then there's another headline called carrying blindness. They say this bioengineered corneas. That's a weird term. Stand to cure blindness for millions of people around the world. The researchers say the study shows the promise of quote cell therapy for treating other incurable conditions.

[00:09:05] Now cornea conditions, this would be people with cataracts and stuff, right? I assume. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, they say eventually they believe that it'll be able to be used in people with two damaged eyes instead of just one. And they say it remains an experimental procedure for now. Additional studies will be needed before the therapy or whatever you want to call it is submitted for final approval from the FDA.

[00:09:36] Anyway, then they also talk about red light therapy that it can improve your eyes as you age. They say we feel this research warrants official trials. Anyway, now let's go to the personal side of this thing. I know a lot about this, Jay. I bet you do. Not because of a cornea situation like they talked about. I don't have that. But I do.

[00:10:00] I was born blind and I have a hereditary eye disease called LCA, which stands for Libra Congenital Amorosis, LCA. What that means is blind at birth. And the guy that discovered it's named Libra or whatever. Libra. And so the point that I'm getting at is there's gene mutation. So bad genes that causes it.

[00:10:31] And it's a fairly rare condition. The one I have is called G-U-C-Y-2-D. That's the gene. G-U-Y-C-2-D. Is that a gene that you can pass on? Or is it? Well, so that's the deal. The way you're blind from this hereditary disease is if both of your parents are carriers or blind, then you could either become a carrier or blind. So it's a recessive trait. I see.

[00:11:00] So if you had two parents that had this exact gene problem, then there's a one in four chance their children would be blind. If, on the other hand, you have one carrier and one other person that does not have it, then you won't be blind. But you could likely pass on the carrier gene, right? Correct. You'd be a carrier. So, for example, for my wife and I, my wife does not have this disease at all. So she has two good genes to pass on.

[00:11:27] She only passes on one or the other of her good genes. I pass along two bad genes because I'm totally blind. So I have, I don't have a good gene. So everyone of my children are carriers. Yeah. Because you get one gene from your mom and one gene from your dad, right? It's the way blue eyes work, I think. Same way. It's similar. Yeah. Okay. Well, the reason I bring all this up is because all my kids are carriers.

[00:11:53] But understand that because it's recessive like this, take my grandchild A. If one of my children passes their good gene, because they can see, so they're carriers, they're not blind. You're going to have both of them bad to be blind. Right. If they pass along a good gene and then their spouse passes along a good gene, then the next generation, it can be, I don't know if I'm saying it right, but bred out of the population. Sure.

[00:12:23] Anyway, and so as a result, I didn't know why I was blind until I was like 40 years old. I'm almost 60 now. So it's been a while. But no one knew why I was blind and we got the wrong information. When I was born, my parents were told by the doctors, hey, when you see an image, somehow the image is flipped upside down. And in that process in the brain, the image gets lost. Well, first off, that's totally bogus. It doesn't flip the image upside down. Your brain doesn't do that. Okay. Anyway, and so they didn't know why I was blind and they had to have answers. So they made up stuff that just isn't accurate.

[00:12:53] Anyway, but as I discovered why I was blind and then I took some actual gene sequencing to prove what gene I have because there's probably 20 or so genes that can cause this kind of general LCA blindness. And each different gene has different attributes and different ways it behaves. And sometimes when people are blind, it affects other organs in the body based on the kind of, you know, for me, it's just a blind issue. Blind from birth. And anyway, the reason I'm telling you all this is because I started to study this gene therapy.

[00:13:23] And they actually have with my specific gene mutation problem, the G-U-C-Y-2-D gene, they've actually had studies where they've fixed dogs with that type of gene problem. And now they're on to people and they're doing experimentation with this in my situation as well. So I actually went for a study to see if I could qualify for this experiment.

[00:13:51] It's slightly different than the one I just highlighted in the news article, but the principles are the same. It's basically gene therapy and it's basically taking these, what are they called? Stem cells. Stem cells and basically injecting them in the back of the eye to replace good cells. Well, anyway, I didn't qualify for the test for a bunch of other reasons. It's a long story and I don't want to go into that except to say I didn't qualify for the test, but I still keep my eye on the ball for this stuff.

[00:14:19] And so when I saw this in the news, I thought it was a fascinating discussion. You know, whenever somebody sees a story about somebody being able to get their sight back or some new technology or new therapy, everybody that I know always emails it to me and say, Sam, here you go. You're good now. It's not that simple. Yeah. And we're far away from broad based solutions on this stuff. But the experimentation is incredible. And even with my eye disease, they've taken dogs and made them see. Now they've taken people and made them see.

[00:14:47] I probably won't be able to see for a variety of other reasons that are complicated. But anyway, long story short, it's interesting technology, Jay. And I really applaud the research world for working on this and for researching and for the discovery and the progress being made. And, you know, even if everybody can't see, at least some people can. And I think it's tremendous, tremendous progress. Fascinating work. Yeah, absolutely. Any other questions or thoughts on that? No, not really.

[00:15:16] I mean, I think that it's it is very interesting. I wonder, you know, I always I wonder if they could do like a bionic kind of or use technology to get some of this done. But actually, there is one thought on it. You know, you hear about people saying that your brain flips the image upside down. I don't know if you you know, I'm sure a lot more about this than I do because of being so close to your heart.

[00:15:45] But, you know, there was studies done where people closer to my eyes than my heart. Yeah, I get it. Exactly. I'm just kidding. People put these goggles on. This was done a research where it flipped the image upside down. And after I think like two or three days, your brain rewires or whatever or flips the image back right side. And this guy proved it by driving a car, flying an airplane, everything else. The only downside was when he took the goggles off, he left them on all the time that he was awake and never took them off. When he took them off, he had the same problem.

[00:16:14] And we've also seen this with, if you know Destin from Smarter Every Day, he has the bicycle that steers backwards. And, you know, you know how to ride a bike. You cannot ride this thing. But if you practice at it and you try and you keep trying, all of a sudden it clicks in your brain and now you can ride it backwards. But the same thing is right again when he went to Denmark or somewhere and he got on a bike and he couldn't ride the bike. And people just couldn't believe it. He's like, what, you never learned to ride a bike? And he's like, well, no, I've been playing with this other bike that steers backwards and I can't drive a regular bike now.

[00:16:44] So, you know, I thought that that actually did kind of happen in the brain, the flipping of the image, and that it actually does hit the retina upside down. That's not the case you're saying, though. Right. It doesn't work exactly like that. That is interesting. And they say the next generation for brain implants is artificial vision. Some call it the bionic eye. Some call it Neuralink or their competitors. But they say, hey, people are starting to be able to see with brain implants.

[00:17:12] Right now the vision is fairly grainy, but they claim that it will upgrade quickly. So they say bionic implants enable blind people to see once again. And I find this interesting too, Jay, because they're going about it in multiple ways. Gene therapies, eye implants. I don't know if you know about the cochlear. I think it's called hearing device where it kind of skips a lot of your ears. But, okay, they're doing some things like that. I've seen a lot of people have this. They have that magnetic attachment on their head. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:40] That's a pretty common thing now, I think, for the ear implant and being able to hear. Yeah. So they said dynamic stimulation of the brain's cortex can let people see right now very, oh, whatever, shapes and letters and things. It's not great vision, but it's something. Yeah. I mean, anything where you can. Neuralink competitor restores vision in blind people. Pretty interesting stuff, Jay. Even a low resolution would be better than nothing. I mean, where you could see, hey, you don't hit a pole, for example, or something like that. Like you can.

[00:18:11] I think any improvement is worth researching and definitely worth people's time. Yeah. There's a group called Science Corporation. It's a biotech startup. And it was launched by a Neuralink co-founder. Claims that it's achieved a breakthrough in what they call brain computer interface technology that can help patients with severe vision loss.

[00:18:35] In preliminary clinical trials, they say, legally blind patients who lost their central vision can use the company's retina implants, which restored their eyesight, and they can read books and recognize faces and everything else. So there's a lot going on in this field, Jay. Elon Musk is at the cusp of a lot of it. Yeah, he is. And he, you know, they're saying that we're making some changes. With the neural links and stuff, yeah. Yeah. So where it'll go, I don't know, Jay, but I'm keeping an eye on it,

[00:19:05] and I'm involved in that research to the eyeballs. Pardon the pun. Now, are you up to your eyeballs in that research, aren't you? Yes, sir. Sure. Now, you're not of the kind that would go for like an implanted neural link, really, are you? Or would you do that? I don't know. I would have to study it and decide. So I'll give you a quick 30 second on this. You know, I was a kid, and everybody said, what if you get your sight back? Would you do it? And I'm like, yeah, absolutely, for sure. It'd be incredible. I'm all over it.

[00:19:32] Now that I'm almost 60 years old, though, and I've done almost everything there is to do in life, and I've, you know, got a wife and eight children, and I've learned my life like this. I make my living like this. I do what I do. I'm not so sure if I'd do it or not. Right. I can understand that. So I would have to gauge the risk. I'm not afraid of it. Yeah. I would just have to gauge the risk versus the reward versus how much vision I'd get versus if they came back and said, Sam, you'll be able to see 2020. And there's hardly any side effects, and this is incredible. And, you know, I'd be pretty interested.

[00:20:02] Yeah, but what if they said, hey, you'll be able to see 2020, but it's going to take 10 years off the rest of your life? You probably wouldn't do it. Yeah, I would not do it. Absolutely not. Because you'd rather spend those 10 years with your grandkids. I don't know how long I have, but the average man lives around 75, right? Yeah. I mean, even if it's had five years or three years or something like that, because of the extra strain or whatever, you probably wouldn't do it. I could understand that 100%. Or if they say your vision is just going to be very rudimentary, so you're going to be able to see shapes and stuff like that, and big print block letters, but that's about it.

[00:20:32] I probably would not do it. I don't know if that's enough vision to make sense for me. Yeah. Also, depending on how invasive it is and lots of variables. Yeah, and how much does it cost? What's the downtime? What's the pain level? Or is it like, hey, so I talked to somebody that just went in for cataract surgery, and they came out, and they're able to, you know, a day or two later, they're not feeling perfect, but they say it's already much more clear. It's incredible. And, you know, so how long in the field is that when people do LASIK or they get cataract surgery?

[00:20:59] I mean, it's so routine now to where people come out of that, and it's just incredible. They're doing great really quickly. Yeah, I know. And it's not that expensive. It's fairly routine, right? Yeah, I know. LASIK did both thighs at the same time, which used to be in the past. You'd only do one and then come back into the other later, so you still have a good one. But literally did it on a weekend and was back to work on Monday. Yeah, it's incredible. It's pretty good. So, I mean, if they got it that good and they said, Sam, you'll be back to work on Monday, buddy.

[00:21:26] It's no problem at all, and you'll have 20-20 vision, and there's not a lot of pain or adjustment period. And look, our research shows that the negatives or the side effects are really low or nonexistent, and it's not too expensive. I'd be pretty interested. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see. I'm just saying at what cost and at what change to my life and my lifestyle, you know, would it be and does it make sense? And so I'd have to really kind of go about it. Believe it or not, I'd also have to kind of pray and talk to God a little bit and say, is this something that you want me to do?

[00:21:56] Very smart. I didn't say that before when I was younger. I'm just like, oh, yeah, I'm all over it. But as I get older, you know, I want to do what God wants me to do. And if he has a mission for me as a blind person where I can influence people to turn to God or to, you know, whatever difference I make in people's lives. You know, if the Lord said, Sam, you can get your sight back tomorrow, but I'd prefer you stay blind for the rest of your life for these wise reasons. I'd just trust my God and say, okay, I got it. I agree. Can't argue with that. So it's different now than it used to be.

[00:22:26] Maybe I'm just a little bit older and wiser, I guess. I don't know. But to me, that's kind of the key, right? Or that's the focus is that I would take it one step at a time. Now, it's interesting to note just for the record. So everybody understands none of my children are blind. They're all carriers, but none of them are blind because my wife doesn't have the recessive mutated gene problem that I have. And so, therefore, none of my kids are blind. I've got eight children, none of them are blind. Now, did you guys test for that before you got married? Well, so we didn't know. Remember when I got married?

[00:22:56] Oh, that's right. And so we didn't test? No. And I talked to my wife about it, and I said, I don't know why I'm blind, and I don't know if we'll have blind children or not. And she just didn't care. She was like, I don't care. If we do, we'll deal with it. Right. And I've talked to my children, and so they know why I'm blind, and they know there's a test out there. So whenever one of my children get married, I literally sit them down and explain to my child and the spouse, or the potential spouse, and say, hey, here's the story, and here's what you need to do. And do you care? Do you want to do anything about it? Do you want to take a test?

[00:23:24] I just want to make sure you guys understand it and that you're aware. I don't care. And every one of them so far have got five children married and nine grandkids, and every one of them said, we don't care. Paps or dad, they call me paps, right? Right. If we have a blind kid, we're going to be relying on you a lot. We know somebody that knows how to navigate that situation specifically. Yeah. Well, they've simply said they didn't care. Now, I'll still tell the rest of my children and their spouses too, but none of my grandchildren are blind either. Right. That's awesome.

[00:23:51] And it would take tests now for some of the grandchildren because they might not even have it. Like if my son gives his good gene to his child and his wife doesn't have it, they don't have it at all anymore. Right? Right. Exactly. So it's very interesting how this works, and here's what people need to know. Just because my gene is related to sight or if it's deafness or something else, it's pretty easy to realize that, hey, this guy's got a problem or a disability. Most people have mutated genes. Yeah.

[00:24:19] I was going to say, most people have probably got carrying of something or even lots of things that they don't know about. And they're either carriers for it and don't even know, and or like my parents, both of my parents did not even know that they were carriers of this. Very interesting. None of their family is blind either, so it's very rare indeed. Anyway, I thought that would be an interesting tech. I don't know. Restoring sight. You're a special guy, Sam. You got to dig it, right? What a great advancement in technology. Hey, make it a great tech day, will you?

[00:24:49] Thanks.