Texting Woes, Tech Turbulence, and Meta’s Big Gamble

[00:00:18] All right, back with you live on another edition of Tech Watch Radio.

[00:00:22] We keep an eye on tech so you don't have to.

[00:00:24] Brought to you by NetworkProvidersInc.com, the website for the show, NPITechGuys.com.

[00:00:30] I'm Sam Bushman. Jay Harrison is with me. FBI in the news.

[00:00:35] Jay, FBI warns Americans to stop sending text messages from Android to Apple.

[00:00:46] I guess they say as the CCP, the Communist Party breaches networks.

[00:00:50] Joshua Phillip with this piece, Crossroads Live, the Epoch Times talks about this in detail.

[00:00:56] And I guess this could get political in a hurry maybe if we're not very careful, Jay,

[00:01:00] but just from a technical point of view, they say why phone owners should basically stop this

[00:01:05] based on this FBI warning and stuff like that.

[00:01:08] It's a Chinese hacking operation known as Salt Typhoon.

[00:01:13] I've recently accessed the private text messages and phone conversations of people

[00:01:18] and all this kind of stuff.

[00:01:20] Just weird, Jay.

[00:01:21] I mean, the average Joe just doesn't know anything about this.

[00:01:23] They're just trying to live their lives, man.

[00:01:26] They don't.

[00:01:27] And, you know, the old SM7 system for messaging is really old.

[00:01:33] It's been broken for a long time.

[00:01:35] iPhone users don't have this problem because they're using iMessage,

[00:01:38] which is kind of layered on top of it, and it uses their own encrypted Apple stuff.

[00:01:42] I mean, if you're using Telegram or anything else really, you don't have this problem.

[00:01:45] It's when you use even Google's new RCS system that they're trying to build out doesn't have this

[00:01:51] or isn't susceptible to this, but it's the old SMS messaging system that just really needs to be revamped

[00:01:58] or done away with or whatever.

[00:01:59] They just need a next-generation solution for this.

[00:02:02] So is it when you see green?

[00:02:04] Is that how you know?

[00:02:05] Yeah, on an iPhone it's when you see green.

[00:02:07] So if you see green bubbles on an iPhone instead of blue ones, on an Android or something,

[00:02:11] you don't really know at all.

[00:02:12] I mean, generally you're using RCS nowadays if you have a modern phone.

[00:02:16] Hold on.

[00:02:17] Explain RCS, though.

[00:02:18] Generally you're using what?

[00:02:20] RCS, which is Google's answer to iMessage.

[00:02:24] Basically it's next-gen Google style as opposed to old-style text messaging, right?

[00:02:30] Right.

[00:02:30] Yeah, it's basically a data chat system that uses the Internet instead of using SMS messaging

[00:02:37] through the old phone system.

[00:02:39] So let me explain it this way.

[00:02:41] If you're on Apple to Apple or if you're on Android to Android, you have these next-gen messaging

[00:02:47] systems that don't have this problem.

[00:02:49] It's when you go between the two.

[00:02:50] Yes, if you're on a newer phone.

[00:02:52] I know, it's very complicated.

[00:02:54] That's right.

[00:02:54] No, that's right.

[00:02:55] Good call.

[00:02:56] That's exactly right.

[00:02:57] But my point is, but it's when you're between the systems because these systems haven't

[00:03:02] worked out a way to collaborate properly.

[00:03:05] It's the real problem here, Jay.

[00:03:07] And I want to highlight that because I think that's really the issue here.

[00:03:10] It isn't that there's not new systems.

[00:03:11] We could have retired the old system a long time ago.

[00:03:14] The real issue is that Google, Android, whatever you want to call it, and Apple, iOS or whatever,

[00:03:20] they haven't collaborated on a way to deal with their upgraded systems in a way that would

[00:03:25] be secure and transparent and work with the other party.

[00:03:29] They haven't collaborated enough on this.

[00:03:31] That's the real problem, right?

[00:03:33] It isn't that we need a new system.

[00:03:34] We've already got systems.

[00:03:35] What we don't have is collaborated systems.

[00:03:38] Yeah, and RCS has tried to do it, tried to unify it.

[00:03:41] For a while, Apple didn't play well with it.

[00:03:44] They've had some pushback from the European Union.

[00:03:46] But it's kind of like SMS is like the one thing everybody can agree on.

[00:03:51] It's kind of like when you're on SSL communication and you're using older protocols, it will try

[00:03:56] to use the newest, best one.

[00:03:58] But if nobody can talk in anything but the lowest, even an insecure one, it will fall back

[00:04:03] to that.

[00:04:03] And that's sort of what phones will do on the fly.

[00:04:07] Yeah.

[00:04:08] And so it's that old really tech system.

[00:04:10] Now, I don't really know about the hacking in terms of this special hacking system because

[00:04:18] can it breach some of these other systems or just the old stuff?

[00:04:21] Well, this is Chinese hacking salt.

[00:04:23] What's that thing called?

[00:04:25] Salt Typhoon.

[00:04:26] Can that deal with other more modern systems or only that old base system?

[00:04:30] I think that as I understand it, they're getting into the older SM7 system.

[00:04:35] That's the SMS thing.

[00:04:36] Something newer like RCS and like iMessage are certainly not susceptible to this.

[00:04:43] But this isn't just a Chinese hacking thing.

[00:04:45] Lots of people have been getting into this.

[00:04:47] It's been problematic for a long time.

[00:04:49] That's why people have said, and it's been a great two-factor way, right, to just SMS

[00:04:53] somebody a code.

[00:04:54] It has been, but it also kind of hasn't been for a long time because it's not very secure.

[00:04:59] It's easy to intercept.

[00:05:00] It's easy to do these attacks where somebody will switch your number out or somehow get

[00:05:07] in and become like a third-party eavesdropper on that number for text messages.

[00:05:11] So it's not a perfect system.

[00:05:14] And that's why a lot of people are going, they want to go to Authenticator apps, which

[00:05:18] roll like a six-digit code that's time-based to get around this.

[00:05:23] But, you know, so I understand that they're saying, hey, this is a Chinese hacker problem.

[00:05:28] I think it's an anybody hacker problem.

[00:05:30] It doesn't matter if Russia, America, and Chinese.

[00:05:31] I think the hackers are getting into this system, and it's problematic, and that's probably

[00:05:36] where the focus should be.

[00:05:38] Yeah.

[00:05:39] Anyway, I just find it very weird.

[00:05:41] And I guess my whole point is I don't know how you solve it, Jay, because you can't just

[00:05:47] not text people.

[00:05:48] You don't know.

[00:05:49] I mean, I guess unless you see green or whatever, you don't know what other people have

[00:05:52] or whatever, and I don't know really.

[00:05:55] I mean, I understand them saying, hey, stop texting.

[00:05:58] Stop doing this, public.

[00:05:59] But how do people really stop doing that, Jay?

[00:06:01] I don't think it's practical.

[00:06:02] Well, I think they're mainly saying if you're just sending the grocery bill or, hey, where

[00:06:06] are you at?

[00:06:07] You know, stuff that nobody cares about is probably not as sensitive.

[00:06:11] But, you know, don't send your crypto keys, your security stuff, your banking account

[00:06:19] numbers across SMS.

[00:06:21] That's one of the main takeaways.

[00:06:24] Use something that's more secure.

[00:06:25] Use iMessage.

[00:06:26] Use Telegram.

[00:06:27] Use anything.

[00:06:28] Signal.

[00:06:29] There's a lot of protocols out there.

[00:06:30] There's lots of options for people to use.

[00:06:32] It's just that it's sort of the default is what people will fall back to.

[00:06:36] And the default on a lot of devices, especially the older or simpler it gets, is going to be SMS.

[00:06:42] Yeah.

[00:06:43] And to me, I think that the carriers need to take this instead of the average citizen needing

[00:06:48] to take action at this point or do something.

[00:06:50] Be careful with whatever you text.

[00:06:52] First of all, don't be texting personal private information everywhere anyway.

[00:06:56] Yeah.

[00:06:56] It's not as private as you think.

[00:06:57] Well, and it's considered in the business world and in the corporate and the government

[00:07:03] world, it's called transit communication, which means it's not solid.

[00:07:07] It's not recorded.

[00:07:08] It's just anybody can pick it off.

[00:07:10] Anybody can use it.

[00:07:11] It's kind of throwaway communications in a lot of ways.

[00:07:13] Now, I know people don't use it that way, but that's what it's kind of classified as.

[00:07:17] So be careful when you do that as a general rule.

[00:07:21] And I guess my point is that I think these companies, Apple, Android, whoever else, they're

[00:07:26] the ones that are going to need to get together in a hurry and collaborate and stop this.

[00:07:30] You know what?

[00:07:31] Move us to next gen messaging.

[00:07:33] I don't know what word to use because texting doesn't even apply in some of these messaging

[00:07:36] systems.

[00:07:37] Now, I know you actually text, but it's kind of like an old term.

[00:07:40] It's like, are we on the radio right now?

[00:07:41] Well, yes, we are.

[00:07:42] But we're also then people are listening to us on the Internet, which is a podcast or

[00:07:46] live streaming, which isn't really radio in the traditional sense.

[00:07:49] OK, this texting word has become that in this messaging world to where these companies just

[00:07:54] need to get together and solve the messaging problem.

[00:07:56] If they're being hacked by this typhoon thing, then they need to stop it.

[00:07:59] And the average Joe can't really do much about it except for maybe try to be paranoid.

[00:08:04] But other than that, I mean, there's nothing you can really do.

[00:08:06] So I'm just telling you this.

[00:08:08] This is a shout out to these companies.

[00:08:09] Get it fixed for crying out loud there.

[00:08:11] And by the way, while you're at it, fix when I send a photo to somebody that doesn't degrade

[00:08:15] and jack down and ruin my photo, too.

[00:08:17] That's MMS over SMS, right?

[00:08:19] When it degrades like that.

[00:08:20] Yes.

[00:08:21] But again, the average Joe doesn't know all those terms you're saying, Jay.

[00:08:23] All they know is when I send Steve a picture, it sucks.

[00:08:26] And Steve hates it.

[00:08:27] Yeah.

[00:08:27] Steve wants it fixed.

[00:08:28] And so do I, for crying out loud.

[00:08:29] We don't care.

[00:08:30] We don't know.

[00:08:30] Because what you're saying is, yes, it goes through all these loopholes of technology

[00:08:34] and the least link is the worst link and all that.

[00:08:37] I get it.

[00:08:38] But nobody cares, Jay.

[00:08:39] Just make it work.

[00:08:40] I know.

[00:08:40] And these companies can do that instantly if they really try.

[00:08:43] Well, I don't know about that, right?

[00:08:45] I don't think that companies can get it done instantly because the phone system, you have

[00:08:49] all these old bell companies and, you know, Quest and Winstream and just all these different

[00:08:56] companies.

[00:08:56] And literally dozens, if not hundreds across the world that are all confederated into this

[00:09:02] system.

[00:09:03] And to make that stuff happen, it's not even like Apple and Google, right?

[00:09:06] I mean, Apple and Google can solve it over the internet with new protocols like RCS or whatever.

[00:09:11] But that's going outside of the phone company thing.

[00:09:13] The other thing is there's huge inertia, Sam.

[00:09:15] There is big, multi-billion dollar business in sending people text messages.

[00:09:21] And the phone company does not want to let go of this.

[00:09:23] They did make it for users.

[00:09:26] Unlimited text messaging.

[00:09:27] Fine.

[00:09:27] They were cool with that because they knew once they got businesses involved.

[00:09:31] But, you know, if you're a business and you want to send out text messages, even authentication

[00:09:36] like that, you know, send a text message to somebody to give them a password to do two-factor

[00:09:41] authentication, that can cost you, you know, anywhere from six to maybe two cents per text

[00:09:47] message.

[00:09:48] That adds up to huge business.

[00:09:50] There's so much inertia.

[00:09:51] I don't think they're going to solve this overnight.

[00:09:53] The only way it's going to get solved is somebody like Google creating another system that's

[00:09:57] another layer that's using IP and it's going to abandon that old system.

[00:10:01] I don't think they're going to fix it.

[00:10:03] Well, and that's why I say that I think that they can do this quickly, just make everything

[00:10:07] go over the internet.

[00:10:08] Internet and, you know, there's ways to make all that happen internally transparent to the

[00:10:13] user.

[00:10:14] I agree with that.

[00:10:16] And we're seeing that already.

[00:10:17] Well, we got to go through the bells.

[00:10:18] But look, how does Telegram do it?

[00:10:19] How does Apple do it with all the Apple phones?

[00:10:21] It doesn't change the fact that I'm on a phone or through, you know, Verizon or AT&T or whoever

[00:10:26] I'm through.

[00:10:27] They're doing it.

[00:10:28] And if they can do it to an Apple phone, if Android cooperates or vice versa, they can do

[00:10:32] it to them, too.

[00:10:33] Yeah.

[00:10:33] And you got to remember, though, that that is an IP solution.

[00:10:36] That's Internet protocol that's not using the cellular voice and back end data channels

[00:10:43] that are old school that that SMS is built on.

[00:10:46] Right.

[00:10:46] But who cares?

[00:10:47] And the average Joe doesn't even know.

[00:10:50] Right.

[00:10:50] The average Joe doesn't even know when.

[00:10:52] That's absolutely right.

[00:10:53] Yeah, they don't know.

[00:10:53] And as a tech guy, I don't even know.

[00:10:54] Like if I send a text message to somebody, I don't know where it went through.

[00:10:57] Right.

[00:10:58] Nor do you care.

[00:10:59] As long as it gets there.

[00:10:59] Nor do I care.

[00:11:00] That's right.

[00:11:00] Right.

[00:11:00] So that's what I mean by they can solve it instantly.

[00:11:02] They could just simply say, hey, however you're getting it from Apple phone to Apple phone

[00:11:05] over and over all the time, you can do the same thing to an Android phone if you make your

[00:11:09] protocols match and if you agree.

[00:11:11] It can happen.

[00:11:12] And then you say, well, if there's not Internet, well, half the time if there's not Internet,

[00:11:15] you don't have, oh, what's that stupid thing that doesn't know anything, Siri?

[00:11:20] You know, that doesn't work either.

[00:11:21] Right.

[00:11:22] And keep going, right?

[00:11:23] And so half your stuff, you don't, I mean, your maps, is that coming from an old cell, you

[00:11:27] know, network?

[00:11:27] No.

[00:11:28] No.

[00:11:28] It's all Internet.

[00:11:29] So people don't even know the difference anymore.

[00:11:31] I know.

[00:11:31] And it's going to be soon.

[00:11:33] I mean, as long as you have Internet, and it's already that way now.

[00:11:36] I mean, I see sometimes kids or whatever, or you have another account and they have a

[00:11:41] cell phone, but there's really no cellular to it.

[00:11:43] It's an Internet only device.

[00:11:44] It hooks up on Wi-Fi anywhere you can get a Wi-Fi signal.

[00:11:47] And that's all you really need.

[00:11:48] I mean, there's lots of people that operate that way, especially, you know, you'd be the

[00:11:54] people that don't have a lot of money and they're trying to do it on the skinny.

[00:11:56] They're just going to have Wi-Fi phones.

[00:11:57] What's that thing called?

[00:11:59] Anyway, there's a service that does that now.

[00:12:00] It's kind of like text phone or I can't remember the name of it, but you can basically get a

[00:12:04] free account.

[00:12:05] They'll give you some ads and everything.

[00:12:06] But what they give you is a phone number and then your phone only works when it's on Wi-Fi.

[00:12:11] That's all.

[00:12:12] They have those right now.

[00:12:13] And you can basically get a free phone number and then they run a couple of commercials on

[00:12:17] your phone or a little ads or whatever.

[00:12:19] And then it's just like a text phone and that's all it is.

[00:12:21] And it only works on Wi-Fi right now.

[00:12:23] So, yeah, I've got a friend that has that.

[00:12:25] And, you know, so they've got that stuff happening right now.

[00:12:27] And hey, they get texts.

[00:12:30] That's pretty incredible.

[00:12:31] Well, and when they get texts, I mean, I guess it depends on how you define a text.

[00:12:34] They don't get old SMS stuff.

[00:12:36] I mean, you can get a Google Voice number, but that has its own problems.

[00:12:41] You know, that Google Voice is not giving you numbers forever anymore, as we know.

[00:12:44] Right, Sam?

[00:12:46] Oh, no, there's no.

[00:12:47] We had a big old fiasco, ladies and gentlemen, where a number for Google expired for someone.

[00:12:54] Somebody else inherited it.

[00:12:56] Things weren't adjusted properly on the forwarding and everything else.

[00:12:59] And people were getting wrong phone calls.

[00:13:01] And it was crazy and very difficult to figure out.

[00:13:03] Look, if Google is going to take a number away from somebody, they need to disable all

[00:13:07] the quote parameters to that number, too, Jay.

[00:13:11] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:13:11] Absolutely.

[00:13:12] They can't just assign the number to somebody else but leave all the other configurations

[00:13:17] in place that point it to other people and all that kind of stuff.

[00:13:20] They've got to free up the number.

[00:13:21] They've got to free it up and get rid of all the configuration contingencies, right?

[00:13:25] Yeah, but in this case, in the case you're talking about, it was actually the configuration

[00:13:28] was on the person's cell phone.

[00:13:30] It wasn't a Google configuration that was left that way.

[00:13:32] I understand, but then Google needs to be texting you and saying, listen, your number's

[00:13:36] gone.

[00:13:37] You need to make sure that you get rid of all the configurations that relate to it.

[00:13:40] Well, not only that, but here's the thing.

[00:13:41] If Google's going to say, hey, if you're not using this number, we're going to take

[00:13:45] it away.

[00:13:46] That's fine.

[00:13:46] I understand that.

[00:13:48] Something's not being used.

[00:13:48] But if something's obviously being used, right, why would you ever just say, oh, well, we're

[00:13:54] skipping that number?

[00:13:55] I mean, obviously, the number was in use and being constantly used for voicemail.

[00:13:58] So anyway, but whatever.

[00:14:00] So things can happen.

[00:14:01] My whole point is, again, maybe we need AI to research all this.

[00:14:06] In other words, you can just press an AI button that says, hey, can you tell me everything

[00:14:09] that's connected, everything else and all the configurations behind it?

[00:14:11] Lay it all out for me in a roadmap or whatever map so I can get to the bottom of it.

[00:14:15] And I don't know.

[00:14:16] But here's what I do know.

[00:14:18] Meta.

[00:14:19] That's the Facebook parent company, right?

[00:14:21] They're going to be creating a massive AI data center in rural Louisiana.

[00:14:27] Did you see this, Jay?

[00:14:28] I have not, no.

[00:14:29] They say it's a $10 billion facility.

[00:14:33] It'll be the company's largest AI data center to date.

[00:14:39] And they say it's the largest data center ever built by Meta.

[00:14:45] It's going to be going to northeast Louisiana.

[00:14:47] Montana, they're hoping that it'll transform an economically depressed corner of the state.

[00:14:58] How many jobs are they supposed to hire?

[00:15:00] I don't know that yet.

[00:15:02] Congressional leaders and local representatives across the political spectrum, though, are saying

[00:15:08] this will be an economic boom.

[00:15:11] The population of this county that's in is like 20,000 people, though, Jay.

[00:15:15] So, yeah, but if they if they hire 15 people out of the county, it's not going to make that

[00:15:23] big of a dent in the county.

[00:15:24] Well, it's supposed to provide big jobs.

[00:15:26] Well, with a lot of these revive the county.

[00:15:29] How many jobs in 20,000 people?

[00:15:31] I don't know how many jobs it'll really be.

[00:15:33] They say about one in four residents are considered to live in poverty currently in this area.

[00:15:38] Yeah. And the parish has an unemployment rate of hold on.

[00:15:44] They call it an employment rate of lower than 50 percent.

[00:15:50] According to the U.S. census data on this thing.

[00:15:52] So it's very strange.

[00:15:53] And I guess I'd have to think about per family, per job or whatever.

[00:15:57] But it's got to be several thousand jobs, though.

[00:15:59] And they're hoping it will transform this whole county.

[00:16:03] OK, so I live in a smaller county.

[00:16:05] Oh, they say 500 jobs, I guess, as I see this now.

[00:16:06] It'll create 500 jobs and be done in 2030.

[00:16:09] That's pretty good. 500 is pretty good.

[00:16:11] I live in a smaller county of about maybe double that in population.

[00:16:15] And what I see and have seen in past years is these companies come in.

[00:16:20] Recently, recently, I mean, in the last five, 10 years, we've had one come in from Germany.

[00:16:24] And the county ended up giving them so many tax breaks, so many sweet deals.

[00:16:29] They came in.

[00:16:30] They did all this stuff.

[00:16:32] Didn't work out like it was supposed to.

[00:16:34] Ended up kind of hosing out a bunch of stuff.

[00:16:36] They used up a bunch of land that they got for nothing.

[00:16:39] Sold it back.

[00:16:40] I mean, there was it was kind of a fiasco.

[00:16:43] And, you know, I hope that Meta is not going to end up with a similar thing.

[00:16:46] They're just looking for what I'm saying is that county just needs to be careful.

[00:16:51] Sure, it's great.

[00:16:51] They're bringing lots of jobs.

[00:16:52] They're going to bring some infrastructure.

[00:16:53] That's awesome.

[00:16:55] Just be careful you don't give them too much of a sweetheart deal in case it doesn't work out.

[00:17:00] Now, here's what they say, I guess.

[00:17:02] So this gets a little more nuanced because I guess there's a construction phase, Jay, and then, you know, whatever phase.

[00:17:07] 500 operational jobs and 5,000 temporary construction jobs will be in play for this thing.

[00:17:15] And then they say at 4 million square feet, it'll be the company's largest AI data center.

[00:17:21] I've mentioned that.

[00:17:21] They say they also plan to invest $200 million into road and water improvements.

[00:17:30] Eventually, it'll increase costs for folks that are going to build three natural gas power plants to this thing and everything.

[00:17:38] It's just crazy.

[00:17:39] This thing's a massive thing.

[00:17:41] It just seems like, to me, it's not that many jobs for that kind of an investment, Jay.

[00:17:45] Is this thing going to be bigger than that NSA data center in Provo or wherever it is over by you guys?

[00:17:51] Heck no, it's in Draper, Utah.

[00:17:52] But no, not even close.

[00:17:54] Wow.

[00:17:56] They say they got to build all this to offset the water usage.

[00:18:00] Why would a data center be using water?

[00:18:03] Because you got to cool that sucker down, dude.

[00:18:07] Yeah.

[00:18:08] Are they is everything going to be like I mean, usually water cooling is in a loop unless you're boiling it off into steam in the air.

[00:18:14] I mean, you don't have a huge water usage, I don't think.

[00:18:18] Yeah.

[00:18:18] Anyway, the public service commission is basically weighing the proposals.

[00:18:22] Environmental groups are involved.

[00:18:23] And it's this big old deal, man.

[00:18:25] Wow.

[00:18:26] And I just think about it.

[00:18:27] And I think AI, I thought that was supposed to like be really simple in here today, Jay.

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:32] It also concerns me.

[00:18:33] Why does a meta need such a huge data center?

[00:18:38] There's already so many problems that people have had with with a with a meta and Facebook collecting too much information on people.

[00:18:47] Yeah.

[00:18:48] Yeah.

[00:18:48] I just don't even know how, but I know this when one in four residents are considered to be in poverty with a below 50 percent unemployment rate or employment rate or whatever.

[00:18:57] That's just shocking.

[00:18:58] And so they're saying that this is that's the South, man.

[00:19:01] That's the everywhere.

[00:19:02] This is the worst place, though.

[00:19:05] In other words, the place that needs the most help of any places.

[00:19:07] And that's why they're doing it.

[00:19:08] I see.

[00:19:09] I thought Mississippi would be more like that.

[00:19:11] But Mississippi, Louisiana, I guess, you know, it's all around there.

[00:19:14] Arkansas, you know, that's some of the deep south is like that.

[00:19:17] And I hope they get some tech.

[00:19:19] And I hope it, you know, revitalizes the area.

[00:19:22] I'm a little bit concerned, though.

[00:19:24] You know, AI is a very disruptive reality, Jay.

[00:19:27] And if you're going to talk about we're going to have this done by 2030.

[00:19:29] So that's what?

[00:19:30] Five years away at least.

[00:19:31] Then you're going to have, you know, over the next 10, 15 years, these three gas power plants built to deal with the power.

[00:19:36] And I might disrupt things so fast, folks.

[00:19:41] Yeah.

[00:19:42] What I will do is it'll disrupt that to where the 500 promised jobs will turn into 30 or something.

[00:19:47] Yeah.

[00:19:48] And it might turn into what we don't need near the promised projected power that we thought because we I was able to create power savings.

[00:19:56] Or this was able to I just really get really scared when we project out that far when it comes to spending.

[00:20:01] When we don't really have confidence based on disruptions that the technology will support the long commitments of spending and everything else.

[00:20:12] It's just weird, Jay.

[00:20:13] But I do think it's it's smart of meta to to decentralize their data centers, move them around, put them in different areas.

[00:20:21] And if they can help the locals, then that hopefully that works out well for them.

[00:20:26] Yeah.

[00:20:26] Let me give you another point to make the point.

[00:20:29] It all relates to what we've been talking about now.

[00:20:31] AT&T, I guess now is going to eliminate.

[00:20:35] All copper phone lines.

[00:20:39] By what, 2030?

[00:20:41] Yeah, 2029.

[00:20:42] By 2029, 21 states will get done, but they're going to basically just be getting rid of copper line.

[00:20:46] Well, when AT&T takes the lead on this, pretty soon you're not going to even have copper lines anywhere, Jay.

[00:20:50] I think this is a bad idea.

[00:20:52] Yeah.

[00:20:53] Well, I mean, there's a lot of people that still have are using their fax lines and their alarm system lines and their home phone lines and they're just copper lines, especially in rural areas.

[00:21:04] There's a lot of it out there.

[00:21:05] But AT&T wants to lead the charge and say, you know, they're saying, hey, there's so much better service available through fiber and broadband.

[00:21:12] That's debatable to me because sometimes it isn't better than a landline or more reliable.

[00:21:17] I mean, obviously, you just look at a fax machine.

[00:21:19] You can't send a fax hardly over a voiceover IP line where you can over a copper line.

[00:21:25] But they say that that fax.

[00:21:28] What's a fax, Jay?

[00:21:29] Yeah, I know.

[00:21:30] I hear you.

[00:21:33] But you're right.

[00:21:34] It includes senior citizens who don't want to use cell phones, consumers who can't afford cell phones, those in rural areas who might not have good access to Internet or broadband.

[00:21:41] These are the people that would be effective.

[00:21:44] Consumer advocates say that another problem with cutting landlines is that some tech relies on them.

[00:21:48] Like I said, like fax machines, security services.

[00:21:51] So far, the FCC has declined to comment on AT&T's news.

[00:21:54] But a spokesperson said carriers must seek permission from the FCC in order to discontinue offering landline service to new customers or to stop providing it to existing customers.

[00:22:04] The carrier also has to comply with FCC rules before renting copper facility.

[00:22:09] But, you know, this is we're seeing it now, the saber rattling, if you will, of big phone companies like AT&T saying, hey, we just want to be out of the copper phone line business.

[00:22:20] And what it amounts to is there's so much infrastructure.

[00:22:23] There's so much upkeep in that.

[00:22:25] And the other thing is, like all the guys who really the linemen who know how to do all that stuff, they're all retiring out and stuff.

[00:22:31] And if you're not a data guy, you know, they don't know how to fix some of these systems even.

[00:22:36] They're really that old.

[00:22:37] And AT&T saying, we just want out of it.

[00:22:39] We just want to do away with it.

[00:22:40] We want to sell broadband and be done with it.

[00:22:43] Well, and like it or not, Jay, it's going to happen.

[00:22:46] So the ISDN line went away and all the radio people went, oh, no, this is horrible.

[00:22:50] And now we've adjusted and learned and worked through it and everything else.

[00:22:53] There are pros and cons.

[00:22:54] But the fact is, it's going away.

[00:22:55] I'm telling you right now, there's no way.

[00:22:57] I don't care if you have to have permission to do this or to do that or whatever else.

[00:23:00] When you don't have people to work on it and maintain it, and when you don't have the funding to justify the upkeep of it,

[00:23:05] it will go away.

[00:23:08] So just write that down and remember who's telling you.

[00:23:11] I just know from experience that is going to happen.

[00:23:13] And you can say, well, it shouldn't, it couldn't, it will.

[00:23:17] Because what do you do when a storm comes through and then, hey, you don't have the guy to know how to repair all that.

[00:23:22] What do you do?

[00:23:22] I know.

[00:23:23] And you're seeing longer and longer repair times on things like that, too.

[00:23:26] Do you go back and just train somebody?

[00:23:29] You know, find a place, get training from the, you know, how do you do that?

[00:23:33] Well, what they're doing is.

[00:23:36] Newer technology or what, right?

[00:23:37] In a lot of places, the copper is just the very last mile.

[00:23:40] They're already replacing a lot of the infrastructure in between.

[00:23:44] So you might have a copper phone line and you think, oh, yeah, it goes out from my house to the first ballard out in the street or down to the next substation.

[00:23:53] But from there, it's getting converted over anyway.

[00:23:55] You're already on voiceover IP, even if you think you have a copper line in most places.

[00:24:00] That's right.

[00:24:01] And so, you know, if your line goes out and they don't have a copper guy to repair, they might be like, hey, you just got to get DSL or you got to get, you know, something else.

[00:24:07] You have fiber or whatever.

[00:24:09] Yeah, or they'll say you're out of our service area.

[00:24:11] We don't service you anymore.

[00:24:12] That may be too.

[00:24:13] You know, and then you're going to get cellular or something else or satellite Starlink or something for your Internet.

[00:24:18] I mean, what are you going to do?

[00:24:19] That's what people are moving to.

[00:24:21] There you have it.

[00:24:23] Anyway, very strange, kind of a weird technology show.

[00:24:26] But there you have it.

[00:24:27] We just thought we'd bring some of these things to your attention.

[00:24:29] I'm Sam Bushman, Jay Harrison with me.

[00:24:31] We keep an eye on tech so you don't have to.

[00:24:33] Brought to you by NetworkProvidersInc.com.

[00:24:35] You've got a friend in the IT business.

[00:24:36] Our website for the podcast, NPITechGuys.com.

[00:24:41] Hey, make it a great tech day, will you?

[00:24:43] Thanks.