Tech Turmoil: Microsoft 365 Outages & Canva's Risky Price Hike

[00:00:21] Alright, happy to have you along my fellow tech enthusiasts.

[00:00:24] We keep an eye on tech so you don't have to.

[00:00:27] I'm Sam Bushman, Jay Harrison with me, NPITechGuys.com, our website for the podcast and more.

[00:00:34] Network Providers Inc. underwrites this show.

[00:00:36] We're grateful for them.

[00:00:37] NetworkProviders Inc.com to learn more about them.

[00:00:40] Hi Jay.

[00:00:41] Howdy Sam, how's it going?

[00:00:43] Ah, it's going fantastic.

[00:00:44] There's so much going on.

[00:00:45] It's just hard to know what to even focus on almost though.

[00:00:48] That seems like every day I feel like I'm always playing catch up.

[00:00:50] I don't know how Sam keeps up with everything.

[00:00:53] I just, one day I hope to grow up and be like Sam, you know.

[00:00:56] Stop!

[00:00:57] I don't know why either.

[00:00:58] All I know is this.

[00:00:59] I do the best I can.

[00:01:00] I try to focus on what I can.

[00:01:02] The problem is at the end of the day whatever I don't get done you want to know what happens

[00:01:04] to it?

[00:01:05] It just rolls through the next day.

[00:01:06] It just rolls through the next day and the fact is it doesn't get done that day.

[00:01:11] It's all there is to it and that's how I do it.

[00:01:12] It's whatever it doesn't get done.

[00:01:13] It sounds like an email.

[00:01:15] It's exactly like your email.

[00:01:17] There's just too much and I can't get it all done but I just do what I can and I just

[00:01:20] try to prioritize and if something just keeps slipping down in priorities then unless somebody

[00:01:25] has a need to escalate it for certain reasons or whatever, if it's a boss then I try to

[00:01:29] escalate it or whatever.

[00:01:30] But all I'm saying is I just can only do what I can do with my time and my day

[00:01:33] and I've only got a certain amount of one time, two brain power and all that kind

[00:01:38] of stuff.

[00:01:40] Computers that way too.

[00:01:41] The difference is computers just slow down and bog down and frustrate you.

[00:01:45] Oftentimes what I do is just tell you that I can't work on that right now.

[00:01:48] I can work on a problem 24 hours a day.

[00:01:50] What if your computer said that?

[00:01:51] I can't work on that right now Jay.

[00:01:52] Well, the latest chat GBT is going to think about things and it could think about it

[00:01:59] generally, you know 10, 20 seconds but they say they're going to have future

[00:02:02] versions that are going to roll out where it might think for a day or a week or

[00:02:06] you know on complex problems and come back to you with an answer.

[00:02:09] That's good and bad.

[00:02:10] Yeah.

[00:02:11] Because the problem is what if it just thinks forever Jay?

[00:02:13] What if it's just in think loop?

[00:02:15] Tell it to calculate the last digit of pi, you know.

[00:02:19] No, it should be smart enough not to do that.

[00:02:22] You know it's like divide by zero and it would be like stack overflow and stuff.

[00:02:25] It should be smart enough to gracefully say I can't just do that.

[00:02:28] You know that's beyond my capabilities.

[00:02:30] Waiting on quantum computing please kind of a thing right?

[00:02:33] Yeah even I don't know they'll get that done with quantum computing.

[00:02:36] Now, right.

[00:02:37] You heard that recently the last couple of days thousands are reporting that Microsoft

[00:02:45] 365 outages as users are unable to access email teams and other apps.

[00:02:52] USA today with this and they couldn't sign into all kind of things and they say 75%

[00:02:59] of the reports around the email app 17% server connections and about 8% with one drive.

[00:03:11] And Jay they say we don't know when it'll be resolved really.

[00:03:15] Well, you know I think they should just rename it to Microsoft 360.

[00:03:18] It gives them a couple of fudge days a year you know just yeah Microsoft 360

[00:03:22] but then they'll get sued by life 360.

[00:03:26] Everybody's got 360.

[00:03:27] You know that's the degrees in a circle.

[00:03:29] It just means you're doing your best.

[00:03:32] Yeah, life 360 down all the time for six and you can even have a down day every week.

[00:03:38] That's right.

[00:03:39] And now Sunday's a week so I mean in modern times why can't chat GPT just figure

[00:03:45] out the problem and solve it and move on supposed to be working for you.

[00:03:49] Week yeah they call that exactly auto healing is that what's coming.

[00:03:54] Yeah, we're just like self heal it is be like chat GPT I'm about to go down.

[00:03:58] There's an error in my memory or an error with my hard driver there with this and that

[00:04:01] what do I do and it could come back with the answer and then it could take action

[00:04:04] it could like order a hard drive for Amazon if it needed to and you know

[00:04:08] I mean just do whatever it needs to do the Internet's like that it kind of routes

[00:04:11] around censorship and just self heals and I like it.

[00:04:14] Yeah sometimes it's slower than it needs to be and doing that but the point's

[00:04:17] well taken yes indeed anyway so our prayers are with Microsoft because no one

[00:04:21] wants to be down like this Jay we've started to rely on Microsoft for too

[00:04:26] much if my emails down on my one drives down or whatever else and I don't use

[00:04:31] one drive I'm making a point if your file systems down for you know connectivity

[00:04:36] or storage or whatever and your emails down and your teams are down.

[00:04:42] Take the day off Jay you might as well just take the day off it's I've got

[00:04:45] to gripe with Microsoft though and it has to do with their one drive they've

[00:04:48] now started making all their apps by default not like this is just a change

[00:04:52] that they've made without asking anybody without getting permission by default

[00:04:56] when you make like a new document now it saves it to your one drive in the

[00:04:59] cloud and we've seen problems with this before Adobe recently said hey

[00:05:03] everything you put in the cloud with our system we own the rights to and

[00:05:07] we can train our AIs on it we can reuse it we can do whatever doesn't

[00:05:10] matter if it's corporate or if it's intellectual property or anything else

[00:05:13] if you put it on our cloud account then we own the content and so for

[00:05:19] Microsoft to make one drive or to make like office and documents and things

[00:05:22] automatically saved to one drive so this happens to me catches me all the time

[00:05:26] I don't use Microsoft a ton but when I do I'll save a document thinking

[00:05:30] especially like I'll open a document on my hard drive edit it and save it

[00:05:34] thinking it's going to save in the exact same folder right next to the

[00:05:37] old one but no it's saved on one drive for me very nice.

[00:05:42] I don't like I don't think they should do that.

[00:05:45] I agree 100% and I think this is why people are starting to get frustrated

[00:05:48] with big tech and just feel like they're just behemoth thug take over the

[00:05:51] world people and you know I have understand the reason they do that

[00:05:56] and I have rejected it.

[00:05:58] I get it too but don't trick me into using it like is your service so bad

[00:06:02] you have to trick me into using it because people aren't opting to do it anyway

[00:06:05] rather educate them you know.

[00:06:07] And some would say well no we're just making it easy to use and everybody

[00:06:11] loves the service and to some degree there's truth to that I mean look at

[00:06:14] auto-saving word as a simple example it's like I forgot to save and think

[00:06:17] heaven is that thing was saving for me because you know or whatever.

[00:06:21] I get the intention but to me there's got to be a balance between

[00:06:25] permission to do things.

[00:06:29] Desire for things to happen doing too much for you that you may or may

[00:06:33] not want done for that matter because a lot of times tech does things that I

[00:06:37] don't want done.

[00:06:38] A good example is on my lock screen of my iPhone if I get 10 texts what it

[00:06:46] does it merges them all into one thing right?

[00:06:49] One little notification I don't like that.

[00:06:52] Don't do that for me because then I got to click on that thing and then

[00:06:55] if I'm busy and I don't pay attention well enough there's 20 texts

[00:06:58] I've missed because they're under that thing that I thought I already

[00:07:00] saw you know they're just trying to be helpful see and I don't want that

[00:07:05] done right so anyway all I'm saying is there's a balance there and it's

[00:07:08] hard for these companies to achieve that I understand that but you know this

[00:07:14] Microsoft 365 has basically become more of a utility not just like

[00:07:18] software it's like its utility status these days Jay.

[00:07:21] Like the operating system right?

[00:07:24] Yeah and I say utility like your power your internet your whatever

[00:07:28] when you can't exist I can't you can't even get your healthcare done without

[00:07:32] yeah right you can't even get your healthcare done because people are just

[00:07:36] going to be like hey Sam you got to get your you know healthcare provider

[00:07:39] email and get the number from that or get this from that or whatever

[00:07:43] approve this or approve that you can't even do it without the email

[00:07:46] these days or you can't even do it without being able to read a PDF

[00:07:49] that they send you or whatever and so it's anyway

[00:07:54] I digress except for thousands are just frustrated later on we're going to

[00:07:59] rename the podcast to the tech curmudgeon's

[00:08:03] it's like what's that guy's name that Dvorak or whatever yeah John Dvorak

[00:08:08] he's a great guy but he's a little bit of a curmudgeon too

[00:08:11] Oh he was yeah I think he even used that term like on himself I mean he

[00:08:15] would be the first to say yeah I don't mean to trash him I'm just saying

[00:08:19] that's why he's a great writer and even though he was kind of grumpy

[00:08:23] he was funny too though and I hope to be that way too to her it's like

[00:08:26] yeah he's a little bit grumpy but he's funny guy and he you know I don't

[00:08:29] mean to be grumpy I just I hope to when you listen to a tech show

[00:08:33] I hope if you're not super techie but you're kind of interested

[00:08:36] I hope we bring it down to the kitchen table in ways that are meaningful

[00:08:39] usable that you enjoy that's fun that you go you know what I've had that

[00:08:43] problem too I get it I see their frustrations or whatever

[00:08:46] kind of a thing now we're going to move to something that the graphics people love

[00:08:49] and now I'm starting to love to hate Jay

[00:08:52] well let me guess canva yeah we've been talking about that

[00:08:56] not on the air by the way but before we get to this it's one of the best

[00:09:00] services is it's kind of like the killer app of late in many ways

[00:09:03] yeah they but now it's going south they're ruining everything good gets ruined

[00:09:07] I mean Skype used to be a killer app zoom used to be a killer

[00:09:11] app I mean I can keep going on and on and on and now this is the latest

[00:09:17] do you say casualty because they haven't even been taken over yet

[00:09:19] I definitely say casualty yeah it's gonna be a casualty

[00:09:24] definitely so canva has decided to raise their team pricing

[00:09:28] depending on how many people you had on your team whatever it could be

[00:09:31] by over 400% in one go their price hike this comes from an article

[00:09:36] that says a risky bet that could alienate core users their prices

[00:09:40] isn't just happening in the U.S. it's a global thing users worldwide are seeing their

[00:09:44] canva teams pricing jump dramatically if you're been one of the many

[00:09:48] small to mid-sized businesses who rely on canva for user friendly designs

[00:09:52] you may have been shocked by their latest email with a substantial price hike

[00:09:56] for their teams plan the cost is going from $120 per year

[00:10:00] for up to five users to $500 per year for those same five

[00:10:05] users is not just a slight increase now that is true

[00:10:10] but I want to be very careful to say that it's a very tiny

[00:10:13] increase comparatively speaking if you're just an individual using it

[00:10:18] yeah it's not that big of an increase it's those who are getting the special

[00:10:21] team benefit that it's a massive increase and they did it because

[00:10:25] they knew that if they were to basically make such a deal for teams all these teams

[00:10:29] would jump aboard and it worked Jay oh yeah definitely but then this comes back

[00:10:33] to say nothing is for free well you think they would ease into it a little bit

[00:10:37] more give you a little more heads up and it's not even the worst thing I mean we'll get to that later

[00:10:41] but this aggressive perhaps even regular reckless price

[00:10:45] raising that they're doing here is forcing users to reconsider their loyalty to canva

[00:10:50] it's clear that canva is leaning more into advanced features they brought in

[00:10:53] AI driven tools I mean what the first one we saw was the automatically

[00:10:57] remove the background on something which was very handy made

[00:11:00] certainly drove users to recommend like myself and use k i

[00:11:04] or use canva all the time and it's

[00:11:08] very nice but it feels like the platform is shifting from being an accessible

[00:11:12] go-to solution for non designers and small teams to a tool

[00:11:16] to a tool catering more to larger enterprises and people with deeper pockets

[00:11:21] this pivot can be seen as canva prioritizing

[00:11:24] profit over the very user base that fueled their initial growth but the

[00:11:28] misage here is unmistakable canva is repositioning itself teams

[00:11:32] that once benefited from the inclusive flat rate model now face sudden

[00:11:36] and steep price hikes that may very well be unmanageable for a lot of teams

[00:11:41] many have already canceled their plans and frustration

[00:11:44] canvas strategy is pricing out smaller teams and

[00:11:48] benefit most from its platform these are the ones that have contributed significantly

[00:11:51] to canvas success by championing its tools and expanding its reach through word of mouth referrals

[00:11:56] I've definitely been in that camp myself but with this

[00:12:00] drastic shift in price canvas effectively closing the doors on these loyal

[00:12:04] users turning them away from their roots as a cost effective design solution for all

[00:12:09] now one of the worst things about this

[00:12:12] is they don't have an easy path for people who have been on a team

[00:12:16] to just take their work and split off into a

[00:12:20] personal group or not even a group but even just a personal account

[00:12:24] in other words make a separate team or an individual account there's no

[00:12:28] good way to make your projects appear in the split off no the only

[00:12:32] way to do this and I've even talked to their support which I get very

[00:12:37] form letter kind of stuff but like you ask the same question

[00:12:40] again to ask for clarification and you get the exact same template

[00:12:44] response back which I don't understand also for a company that's

[00:12:48] making this much money that's as popular as they are why they have such poor

[00:12:53] even email support like you can get to that

[00:12:56] at any time I understand maybe not having a phone number because that's expensive

[00:12:59] but email support I mean come on there's no

[00:13:04] I don't think it's that expensive Jay let me explain if you've got all kind of problems with your

[00:13:08] system software whatever if it's hard to use hard

[00:13:11] to figure out hard to do things then yeah you've got a lot of people calling that number

[00:13:15] right but if you have great software that there's just not a lot of queries

[00:13:20] for and you have a great online help center and you have

[00:13:25] oh like if you type into Google it just flat out gives you a lot of the answers

[00:13:28] to things because it's so well documented online and everything else

[00:13:31] I don't think that it's that expensive to have real tech support with real people I really don't

[00:13:36] right and it should be easy to use now maybe they're afraid

[00:13:39] of with so many newbies you might say people that aren't necessarily

[00:13:43] graphics designers getting on their platform that they would just have a bunch of calls

[00:13:48] about like hey how do I say those if you're paid we're going to support you and if you're not

[00:13:51] then supports you know nonexistent or check our whatever you could say

[00:13:55] email support except for you know these accounts or whatever and there's ways

[00:13:59] to do it that can still make it available I don't buy it I totally agree

[00:14:03] there's also broader implications for this because this price

[00:14:07] brings up the issue with subscription based models as

[00:14:11] other companies are following suit raising prices users are feeling trapped with all their work

[00:14:15] hosted on these platforms what are they going to do when faced with exorbitant costs

[00:14:19] the notion that these platforms are essentially holding users work hostage

[00:14:23] is kind of troubling and it's a reminder that reliance on any single platform

[00:14:27] comes with risks and we're wise to maintain control of our work

[00:14:31] to export backup and importantly evaluate other alternatives regularly

[00:14:35] so that we have a way out when the company does this or makes this kind of move

[00:14:40] it's hard though to back out it's hard

[00:14:43] so the only way that I know that you can take your projects out

[00:14:47] is you log in as a team member you share that project with somebody

[00:14:51] outside of your organization which can be you right you've used

[00:14:55] your email already so now you gotta go find another email you know to start

[00:14:59] up your personal account share it with all another problem

[00:15:03] by the way yeah okay but so you go in you share it with an external

[00:15:07] source they then need to go in and

[00:15:11] pull that project up accept it and then they need to basically

[00:15:14] copy the project and save a copy and not get them confused

[00:15:18] then delete or remove themselves for the one that they were on as a share

[00:15:22] and literally you have to do this with every single

[00:15:26] project so if you had easily I mean people that I work

[00:15:31] with some of them have 700 projects in there they're supposed to do this with every single one

[00:15:35] this is like three days work all by itself just to do that

[00:15:38] right and that's my problem is that look if you provide me a great way to

[00:15:42] upgrade you like Sam we've had to do this we're giving teams too good of a deal

[00:15:46] we're losing money we've got to do this but hey here's a grace period

[00:15:50] that's decent here's a solution here's

[00:15:54] an easy way to morph your projects to whatever or to export your projects

[00:15:58] or whatever that I'm relatively okay and I'm also

[00:16:02] okay with increasing the price if they feel like hey an average one person is

[00:16:06] paying $120 a year for it and a team is

[00:16:10] paying $120 a year for four people that's $30 a user per year that's really

[00:16:14] cheap I get it and if they come back and say listen it's $49 a user so they're

[00:16:18] almost doubling their prices so where they'd get $120 bucks now they're

[00:16:22] getting $200 bucks you know I get that right

[00:16:26] I get that but what they've come back and said is hey for team members it's

[00:16:30] $100 per team member per year so if you had four people on the $120

[00:16:34] plan they now to keep those same four people

[00:16:38] would cost you $400 now

[00:16:42] what kind of an increase is that Jay? That's huge I mean it's like

[00:16:46] a four it's almost a 400% go with the maximum amount of five person team

[00:16:50] before you started paying extra individuals so you have yourself and four other people

[00:16:54] it's over a 400% increase. You have to pay

[00:16:58] what 100 bucks a person? Right because you're going to go from 120 to $500

[00:17:02] a year. See that's just

[00:17:05] so to me what they should do is they should grandfather people even if

[00:17:10] they say our target goal is we want people to be paying $100 a year per user

[00:17:14] again you could say well 100 bucks a year that's not that expensive it's only 8 bucks a month per person

[00:17:18] I get it. Well especially if these people have been I don't disagree but it's the

[00:17:21] transition instantly from one to the other with no options

[00:17:25] if these people on the ground floor have gotten in and they've been your

[00:17:30] ambassadors and they've been the ones promoting Canva to everybody and say man

[00:17:33] and everybody's like man how do you make this stuff how do you turn this out so quick

[00:17:37] check it out here's a link or whatever and these people have been their marketing

[00:17:42] arm for so long they should be grandfathered in

[00:17:45] they are offering I think like a 40% discount

[00:17:50] for the first year if you keep your teams and you go to

[00:17:53] say you have five people it'll only be 300 bucks for the first year after that it's going to go to the

[00:17:58] main price but it's still it's not a great alternative

[00:18:02] and it's not a great path forward I don't think for Canva

[00:18:05] time will tell we'll see but the TechWatch radio team here we've researched some

[00:18:10] alternatives there are other things out there Adobe Express has one

[00:18:14] Kittle is another one that's very similar but it does more

[00:18:17] vector imaging and you can do exports of vector which you can't do with Canva

[00:18:23] VizMe there's one by VistaPrint that's put out

[00:18:26] and what we're finding though is these are all kind of in the same

[00:18:29] price range which maybe is what prompted Canva to say hey we got

[00:18:33] to raise our prices anyway because we're not competing with all these other people they're making more money than us

[00:18:37] I don't know but I know that Canva has been so well known and it's

[00:18:41] been the one that everybody's been the go-to thing

[00:18:45] for literally probably the last three years I learned about it

[00:18:49] from Sam and team myself and was very impressed

[00:18:53] with it and I have probably myself personally I probably

[00:18:58] hooked 15 people on Canva like

[00:19:01] introduced them to it and they're just like oh my gosh this is awesome and it's like all they

[00:19:05] use now until recently. And I supported I got it from my daughter who

[00:19:09] a company a colleague at a company gave her the information

[00:19:13] and stuff like that and I don't even have a problem with them saying listen $30 a year is not fair

[00:19:17] and that's really dirt cheap for you know all that we offer when we started

[00:19:21] out we didn't have near as much capabilities now we're adding AI and we're adding all these capabilities

[00:19:25] so it's way worth more I get it but graduate your people come back

[00:19:29] and say Sam listen we're going to number one give you the easy way to back up

[00:19:33] your stuff and you know what form separate

[00:19:37] accounts in a variety of ways teams individuals companies whatever

[00:19:41] and Sam we're also going to basically take care of you though you know what you're paying 30 bucks a year

[00:19:45] for four people or whatever you know what it's $49.99 for

[00:19:49] you and they can slowly but surely over the next couple

[00:19:53] of years ratcheted up read Hastings got beat up over this in Netflix back in the day

[00:19:58] you know you used to what get a disc center whatever right

[00:20:03] and then they raised prices and they got rid of the

[00:20:05] discs and they're like man for it's online it should be cheaper they don't even have anything to ship anymore

[00:20:09] and then the prices went up and up and you know he got beat up really hard over it too it's not even

[00:20:13] so much that they need to recapture the revenue it's that there's just no respect

[00:20:18] for their customers well it's like hey we're ratcheting

[00:20:22] up the price ago because of the percent there's no way to upgrade there's a

[00:20:25] small time window and screw you and that's my problem that's a problem

[00:20:29] and here's another thing they can actually make even more money than this if you look

[00:20:33] at so let's say you have a team you and yourself and four other people are on it you get the

[00:20:37] five person team and everybody says okay fine I

[00:20:41] understand this we just need to break it out people need to pay for their own stuff you can't

[00:20:45] you know ride the gravy train anymore whatever fine so everybody

[00:20:49] wants to get their own personal account well that's going to be five one hundred and twenty

[00:20:54] dollar a year accounts canville actually be making six hundred dollars

[00:20:57] but they have no good path for somebody who's been a team member

[00:21:01] to just break it out into their own personal thing and go and have a personal plan

[00:21:05] for 120 dollars a month and I don't understand that it's baffling to me why would

[00:21:09] they not do that you'll actually make more money

[00:21:13] the other thing I don't understand is they could easily to come back

[00:21:15] and say listen we're going to break it out in terms of

[00:21:19] features if you don't want any AI and if you don't need as many images

[00:21:23] or whatever you know we're going to take this free thing we're going to turn into a trial

[00:21:27] and then we're going to charge you you know the 30 dollars a month that you've been on but now you're on

[00:21:31] the well plus plan and if you want pro that's got all these

[00:21:35] other things or whatever their graduated thing is then you know you can get this

[00:21:39] net and so you know what we're going to give you plenty of time you can stay where you're at or you can upgrade with love you to upgrade

[00:21:44] now you're giving me choices where I'm like you know what I do need those extra features

[00:21:47] I do want the AI built in right I do want all the extra images

[00:21:51] that you offer I don't need the simple account anymore on beyond that then great

[00:21:55] yeah and but if for some reason I'm like you know what I don't use it that often but I don't want to get rid of it

[00:21:59] I need it then you can say I want to stay on the simpler plan they could do something like that

[00:22:03] to it's about respect for the customer is what I'm talking about agreed

[00:22:07] and they've had a free version which has been decent actually for the most part

[00:22:11] but they're kind of nerfing that also they are setting a

[00:22:15] storage limits on it which I think are five gigs which isn't terribly big

[00:22:19] they are taking the background remover which used to be included

[00:22:23] I believe with the free version and moving that to pro only

[00:22:27] and so yeah you can still kind of get your feet wet and test a few things in canva

[00:22:31] but even the free version isn't as good as it used to be anymore

[00:22:35] anyway so what's next I guess the question is is that people

[00:22:38] are starting to try other alternatives and I've done quite a bit of that I find that some of the alternatives

[00:22:42] just don't measure up in many ways they're simpler things that are cheaper the equivalent

[00:22:46] things are about the same cost as a lot of their new plans

[00:22:49] so it's you know I don't blame them that they're saying it's worth it

[00:22:53] and I'm not disagreeing with some of that I'm disagreeing with how they're going about it more than anything else

[00:22:59] especially when it comes to whose assets are these

[00:23:02] mine are theirs and if they're mine you're sure not acting like it

[00:23:06] yeah if they're not mine you better be clear about that because

[00:23:10] anyway I don't have any way to preserve my assets really without

[00:23:13] well no so I have to tell one of my employees you got to stop your world and work on this for three days

[00:23:18] yeah you do I don't care what you're doing stop this

[00:23:21] and do all this because otherwise we're going to lose it because I'm not you know so

[00:23:25] that's the problem and I personally feel like they have done the bare minimum

[00:23:30] to be able to say oh no we're not holding your work hostage here's how you

[00:23:33] can transfer it but they're not providing any tools to automate that

[00:23:37] or make it happen when it would be virtually simple for them to make this happen

[00:23:41] and like I said even possibly even make more money having more individual

[00:23:46] accounts I just don't think that's where they're going I think they're looking to position themselves

[00:23:50] more for corporate enterprise use and they're just thinking hey

[00:23:53] that's where the dollars are that's where people will you know get it into accounts

[00:23:57] payable and then forget about it that they even had it and they'll just be paying for years and

[00:24:01] decades forever anyway and there I don't know that feel like

[00:24:05] my impression is especially dealing with support and and dealing

[00:24:09] with canva I feel like they're they're like leaving their loyal user base behind

[00:24:13] and they don't even care yeah and they're just like

[00:24:17] gonna be at the top one and where everybody went I don't know I'm an American J and somebody will build

[00:24:21] a better mousetrap somebody will change the game in the end

[00:24:25] folks success isn't only about profit margins

[00:24:29] there I thought was a relationship here

[00:24:33] and sadly they don't seem to think so alright there you have it I know it was a complaint session

[00:24:37] but hopefully it helps you understand the issue with canva it's not just you it's happening to everybody

[00:24:43] networkprovidersinc.com

[00:24:44] make it a great tech day will ya hey thanks