[00:00:04] Broadcasting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West. You are listening to the Liberty Roundtable radio talk show.
[00:00:24] Happy to have you along my fellow American Sam Bushman, Liberty Roundtable live hard hitting talk at your fingertips and TV everywhere. Spread the word, share the love. We are at Freedom Fest, ladies and gentlemen. It's the Libertarian Conference to be noted for sure. We've been doing interviews all day long. Now we have Brian Shapiro with us pushing the limits. Welcome sir. Yes sir, thank you for having me. Do I get to push the limits? You can ask me anything you want man. All right. So you were just talking to Adam Carolla. Yeah. And you were asking him some questions. What did you ask him?
[00:00:53] Well, Adam takes the Nick Shirley approach and all they do 24-7 is attack brown people and Somali fraud. So I asked him a very basic question. Do you also have a problem with the 70 people that Donald Trump pardoned who committed billions of dollars in fraud with no restitution? And Adam Carolla gives me a coward answer. The answer should be yes, all fraud is bad. But Adam won't do that because he's a Donald Trump cock. That's why.
[00:01:16] So I asked him that question. He gave me a half ass answer. But that's what they do. They make a living attacking brown people. They make a living attacking people. Okay. Listen, I'm really sorry that that Somali woman did $10,000 in Medicaid fraud. But what about that white guy who did $200 million in fraud that Donald Trump pardoned? That's the answer. That's the same question I would ask Nick Shirley. Absolutely. So let me ask you some questions with that. Sure. So first off, I don't even know what color you are. Okay. I'm a totally blind person.
[00:01:43] I'm white. I'm a white dude. I'm very white. But I don't even know what color I am, though. I don't care about color of skin. Okay. I think all fraud is bad. Agreed. That's not the way the Trump administration is going to be. I agree. All fraud is bad. 100%. Sure. And I think we need to prosecute the full standard of law. Absolutely. Absolutely. Everywhere, all the time. I agree with you. But why is Nick Shirley and Adam Carolla, why is Nick Shirley only going after Somalis in Minnesota? Why is that? It's a fair question. So let me ask you another question, though.
[00:02:13] So part of the problem in America is we have this vitriol, right? We have this hardcore one group wants to attack the other group. So what are you politically? A libertarian? I'm a registered independent that is very anti-Donald Trump. And I think this wasn't like this 10 years ago. And I blame Donald Trump for a lot of the division that we have right now. I think Barack and Donald Trump are both guilty of it. You think Barack Obama is at the equal level of Donald Trump when it comes to division? I think that they both have their own ways of dividing.
[00:02:41] So, for example, was Barack the first black president? Yeah. And he half white? Who told you that Barack Obama is half white? Wasn't his mother white? I mean, Barack Obama is always identified as an African American. I don't care what you identify as. But what does that have to do with division? It has to do with the division of black and whites, though. The first black president, he's really a white president, too, right? Or is he just a black one? If you're half black, if that's true, you're still... Wait, what's true? If Barack Obama is half black...
[00:03:10] Well, his dad's black, his mom's white, right? Okay, but why is that important? Why is that important to you? Because it's being used as a wedge. Other than that, it's not important. If we just want to say he's a president, that's fine. But if we say he's a black president... Well, he is. He's a white president, too. Okay, so he's half black and half white. That's right. What's your point? So he's the president. My point is why are we... You have a problem with Barack Obama saying that... Or people that saying Barack Obama was the first black president? That's an issue for you? Yeah. Okay, well, Donald Trump is the first orange president. Yeah, there you go. Okay, I mean, I don't understand.
[00:03:39] I can't argue with that. What are we doing here? We're trying to say that there are divide lines... Hold on. There are divide lines being pushed by those narratives. Okay, so you're angry... And Barack's guilty of it, and so is Donald Trump. Okay, Donald Trump is going after POWs. He's going after cold-star families. He's a liable sexual abuser. He's a 34-count felon. Can you name me anything that Barack Obama did that is anywhere to that level? Well, it's not a Barack Obama comparison. Well, you just did. You just mentioned Barack Obama, and you said he divided the country, too. That's right. So it's not a comparison of who's worse. How has Obama divided the country? Hold on.
[00:04:07] It's not a comparison of who's worse. The point that we're getting at is dividing the country. How has Obama divided the country? What you want to do is play one president against another. No, you did that. You brought up Obama. I did. I said that they're both responsible for dividing. And how? Tell me. I just told you. I just gave you one. Because Obama identifies as an African-American, and he's... No, because he pushed that envelope. Don't you think it's significant that even if Obama is half black, that don't you think it's significant that we have the first president that is, let's just say, half black?
[00:04:36] Okay, and I don't even know if that's true or not, but I'm giving you your... I'm going to say you're right. Don't you think that's significant? Why is that wrong to celebrate that? That he's partially black? Yeah. Or that he's president? That he's partially black. Don't you think that's a nice thing that we have a minority for the first president of the United States? Why is that dividing the country? Well, because it asserts minorities over the majority. What do you mean it asserts minorities over the majority? What do you mean? Well, if we're going to focus on somebody being black and giving special credence for them being black... How are they getting special credence?
[00:05:03] We're just celebrating the fact that we had the first minority as president of the United States. How is that... Isn't that focusing on the unique differences? No, what it's doing is it's showing that at one point... What about the idea that he's just an American? Well, he's also an American, but the guy that you... And that's under debate too, right? No, it's not under debate. Yeah, it is. No. Wait, hold on a second. So you've never heard of the birthers, right? No. Donald Trump is the guy that started the birther issue. Wait, wait, let me explain. Donald didn't start the birther issue. Yes, he did. He said that Barack Obama wasn't born in this country. He lied, and that was a racist trope.
[00:05:32] But he's not the one that started that. For five years, he went on... Do you support Donald Trump? No. Saying that... No, I didn't vote for Donald Trump. Okay, good. And when Donald Trump does good... I was getting worried for a second. When Donald does good, I praise him. When he does bad, I say why. What has he done good in the last year and a half? I'd say he's done a lot of good on the border. Okay, so do you think it's good to... I'd say he's done a lot of good to promote Christian values in some ways. I don't know that he lives them, but he's talked about them. You think Donald Trump is... Which is more than most have done. You think Donald Trump is a good Christian? No, I didn't say that. I said he's promoted to Christian values.
[00:06:02] Name me one economic standard or metric where he's done a good job and he's done a better job in the last year and a half and we're in a better economic outcome now than we were a year and a half. I don't think that we are. Okay, so he's done a horrible job on the economy. We agree on that. I think that he's done a so-so job on the economy. Some has been bad, some has been good. Name you one that he's done good on the economy? I'll name you dozens. He has deregulated a lot of things. Okay, so name me one economic... And some of that needs to happen. Name me one economic... I just did. No, no, no. You're not listening.
[00:06:28] Name me one economic metric where we're better off today. We could be talking about job growth. We could talk about unemployment, inflation. Give me one economic metric where we're better off now than we were a year and a half ago. I'll give you one metric. Please. We have less government intervention. So we've deregulated, which means for my small business, I don't have as many regulations holding me down. Okay, that's not necessarily an economic metric. It is. You're saying that he... There's a small business quotient. Are you familiar with it?
[00:06:58] Yes, I am. How people feel like liberty and small business work together. How free are we from a regulated point of view? There's metrics that govern that. Are you not aware of them? I am. Or are you just not willing to give credit for them? I am. I'm willing to give credit where credit is due. So you just said that I'm right and you admit I gave you one. No, I don't think that's an economic metric. I respectfully disagree with you. And I think if we're talking about small businesses, a lot of people would tell you, sir, with respect, they're struggling right now. The economy is struggling. I'm struggling. But you've ignored my point. Well, you're switching. You're switching about less government. You're talking about...
[00:07:26] I've told you that there's less regulations on my small business. Okay. What regulations did Donald Trump help you on in your small business? I just gave you some examples. If you want to dig in and give every specific regulation, for example, taxes have changed. Yeah. I'm happy to talk to you about taxes. Like the biggest tax breaks for the top 1%, which were $100 billion in 2025. They exist, but there's bigger tax credits for me. Okay. As a small business owner and as a man who has children, there's greater tax credits for me. So see, the more specific I get with you,
[00:07:55] the more you discount it and pretend it doesn't exist. For once, what you need to do is agree when it makes sense. I've done that for you and you need to do that for me. So back to our... Name me a policy. Back to our... Hold on. You're switching gears again. I'm not switching gears. Yeah, you are. I'm asking you specifically what you're talking about. I gave you an example. Okay, but what policy is that? What policy did he implement to help your small business? Well, so you can talk about the great tax, you know, whether you want to talk about his original presidency or his current presidency, but he's lowered taxes. He's lowered taxes and that's continued.
[00:08:25] Not in the last year and a half for middle-class America. That's not true. For businesses, there's been some benefits. I'm talking about middle-class America. What policy are you talking about? Wait, you just switched for my business. See what you do. You switch topics. I'm not. I'm talking about your small business. You're moving from topic to topic. I'm not. I'm talking about your small business. What policy are you referring to? I just told you. A tax policy. What is it called? What tax policy? I don't know the name of the policy. Okay. So you want to... No, hold on. I'm not my accountant. I've got CPAs that do this. Okay. But I know that my taxes are lower because the policy is put in place
[00:08:54] in the current administration. And you don't think it's fair for me to ask you what policy you're talking about? You can't even name me the policy. I think it's fair to talk about policy, but I don't think it's fair that I have to name exactly what policy. Chips and science. I gave you an example. I can name you a specific... No, stop. I gave you an example when I have children that I have greater tax credits than I had before. I gave you a specific one. I gave you a specific example with dollars and cents attached to it and you obliterated and ignored it as if it wasn't real. I'm trying to learn.
[00:09:24] No, it wasn't. You pretend that it wasn't real. No, I'm asking you a question, sir, with respect. Yeah. You're telling me that you're better off under Donald Trump in your small business because of this specific situation, right? Yes. And I'm asking you respectfully what policy... And I gave it to you. No, you said you didn't know the policy. I said to you that it's the tax credits for families with children... Which is $1,000. That has nothing to do with private business. You can't tell me that it doesn't benefit my business. Okay, hold on a second. So you're saying your small business benefited more
[00:09:53] under Trump than Biden because of a child tax credit and your child got $1,000. That makes no sense. You're not able to have discussions because you throw so many factors in that mix up the conversation. Now you brought Biden into the discussion before you were talking about Barack Obama. I just want to know the policy. So let's go back... No, you brought up Obama. I did. So let's go back to what my topic was before you brought it to 96 topics that are unrelated. Didn't... Okay, go ahead. I didn't bring up 90. Barack Obama and Donald Trump both are dividing this country. That was my point. You argued with it.
[00:10:22] You're clearly wrong. No, you're wrong. The only thing you brought up respectfully, sir, the only thing you brought up is that Barack Obama is half white and half black. No, I brought up that that divides the country because it was used as a wedge. You can ignore that, but it's true. Okay, but you just said Obama's half black and half white. That's right. You said that divides the country. You haven't given me any... No, I said him pushing that envelope as he's a black president creates a divide. He didn't push any envelope. He's the first African-American president. No, he's the first American president. Okay, he's American too, but we talked about... He's African, but he might be European.
[00:10:52] In fact, unless we get a DNA test, we don't really even know. Well, he... That's my point. You're dividing... He didn't show his birth certificate. Yes, he did. It was proven a fraud. No, it's not true. It was proven a fraud by Joe Arpaio. I'm trying to be respectful here. It was proven a fraud by Joe Arpaio. It was an engineered fake... Joe Arpaio, there's a very credible individual. Let's get back to the topic on dividing the country. So here's my point. Yeah.
[00:11:22] Are you familiar with Braver Angels at all? I'm familiar with that. You're not familiar? What is it called again? I'm sorry. It's called Braver Angels. Braver Angels. I am unfamiliar. Their goal is to get past this divisiveness in America. And their goal is to take the red and the blue, the independent, so they would call them yellow. Yeah. Or there's a white group too, which they don't want to tell you where they are. Okay. From a political point of view. But their goal is to stop the fighting, to try to make people human to one another,
[00:11:51] and to try to... When you humanize people, you say, we might disagree, but we can do so agreeably. So here's my response, sir, what you just said. So hold on. Okay. Before you give a response. Yes. So I'm saying that I think Barack Obama... You started out and said, hey, Donald Trump's been divided the country. I agreed with you. And you compared it to Obama. No, I didn't compare it to Obama. I said that Obama was doing the same thing. It's not a comparison of who's worse. I disagree. It's that I'm saying to you, it's a time frame discussion. Yeah. I couldn't get to that. You're going to be through 96 topics to get here.
[00:12:21] No, I... But now that we're here, it's a time frame discussion. I believe the country has been falling apart since the Barack days. You believe only from the Trump days forward. I disagree. That's fine. So can I give you my reason? Hold on. You believe from the Trump days forward. I believe from the Barack Obama days forward. I'm not saying Barack Obama was perfect, sir. And they actually said that Bill Clinton was the first black president, if you really want to know. Well, that's ridiculous. That's a whole other topic. So if you could just respectfully... We will in a second. We will in a second. But just so you understand, I believe the problem is the country's divided to where we can't have common sense discussions.
[00:12:52] And the conversation I've just had with you proves it. My only point was to try to say we've been divided earlier than you're giving credit for. And you drug us around a barn 90 times. I didn't... Okay. So they didn't wrap, so I'm just going to give you a quick response. Go ahead. Sure. Barack Obama is not a liable sexual abuser. Barack Obama's a good man, a good family man, a good father, a good husband. Barack Obama is not a 34-count felon. Barack Obama never had nicknames for Republicans that disagreed with him. Barack Obama never called people like you and me vermin. Barack Obama's not named 40,000 times
[00:13:21] in the Epstein files. Barack Obama didn't get us $8.2 trillion in debt the way Trump did in four years. Barack Obama never threatened six Republicans and said six Republicans should be getting the death penalty the way Donald Trump did a couple months ago. So if you want to talk to me about divide, Donald Trump is the divider-in-chief. Donald Trump is the guy that wakes up in the morning, puts on eight layers of orange makeup, attacks everybody that disagrees with him. He lied. He said he wouldn't get us in a war. He said he would be a peace president. Donald Trump got us in the war in Iran. Donald Trump is the reason
[00:13:51] why gas prices are $4.5 a gallon. Donald Trump is all those things. So here's the question for you. Barack Obama is a decent human being. So here's the question for you. He's not going to be in the war. He said he would be and January 6th doesn't happen if Donald Trump doesn't lie and say that the election was stolen. Does January 6th happen if Donald Trump doesn't lie and say he won the election? Well, I think it does. Really? You think if Donald Trump conceded, January 6th still happens? So I think, again,
[00:14:21] you're dragging us around to topic after topic. to what I just said. I did. What did you say and what did I respond? Because you didn't listen. I'm enjoying this conversation but they want to wrap. Well, we can wrap on the video. We continue a conversation. But so, let's just say this really quick though. Yeah. Now that you've gone on your rant to attack Trump and defend Obama, you gave me some facts. You gave me some twisted, manipulated. What did I manipulate? We'll get there. Hold on. Just give me one example. So we got to wrap though. I can't. So what I'm saying to you though is this. Now that you've done that, let me ask you a question. Sure. How do you think
[00:14:51] we can bring people together? Sure. Get Donald Trump out of office. If it's a Republican or a Democrat that wins, somebody that doesn't divide the country and attack people with 12-year-old insults. Back 10 years ago, let me give you an example, sir. John McCain. Okay, but you've got to be quick though. I'll be quick. I didn't vote for Hillary Clinton. I didn't even vote for Barack Obama, by the way. I don't know if you knew that, sir. I didn't. Okay. When John, this is important. When John McCain took that microphone from that crazy lunatic woman and when she called him Barack Hussein Obama in an Arab,
[00:15:21] John McCain took that microphone and John McCain said, no ma'am, Barack Obama is a decent man. He's a good family man. We just disagree on policy. That is how we bring people together. It was one of the best moments in political history in my lifetime. Donald Trump is not capable of doing that. So how do we bring people together? We need the John McCain's back in the Republican Party that can sit down with Democrats and get them stuff. So who do you want for 28? Let's wrap on that. Republican or Democrat. Like what? I know, but do you have a name? Do you have a? I like John Ossoff. I think J.D. Vance is a complete imbecile.
[00:15:49] I think Marco Rubio has no spine. They're cucks for Donald Trump. I think there are, I don't like Gavin Newsom, but I do think there are people on the left that are rising stars in the Democrat Party. All right. I was hoping to figure out a way to bring people together, ladies and gentlemen. And this is what you get sometimes. The truth. Thanks for watching. I'm Sam Bushman. God save our constitutional republic. I'm Sam Bushman. Let's pray. Peace. Thank you.